[Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?

George Martin cattleman1920 at aol.com
Tue Oct 16 14:56:25 CDT 2018 

Ivan,
I grow 5 acres of sorghum yearly in Virginia. I have almost worn out my Chattanooga horizontal mill and need to replace it. Would you please send me the manufacturer, model, how it is driven/powered, a photo, location and the price.
Many thanks,
George M

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 16, 2018, at 2:50 PM, ieck at ckt.net wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a vertical mill with hydraulic cylinders mounted above the top
> roller.  I don’t remember the diameter of the rollers but I will try to
> get that info if you’re interested in knowing.
> 
>> Is this a vertical or horizontal mill?
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Syrupmakers [mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net] On Behalf
>> Of ieck at ckt.net
>> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2018 10:08 PM
>> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>> 
>> Scott, Paul or anyone else who my be interested, we have a mill we would
>> be willing to sell. It has not been used since ‘97 but has been under
>> roof
>> for all these years. The mill is more than a hobby mill and would be more
>> suited for production.
>> 
>> If anyone is interested, just reply and I will provide more information.
>> 
>> Thanks, Ivan
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Paul
>>> 
>>> Where are located that you survived the sugar cane aphid?  Or did you
>>> spray?  I lost all my sorghum to aphid and wind.
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> Scott
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Oct 15, 2018, at 6:50 PM, Paul Lefebvre
>>> <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thank you all for the suggestions – I’ve harvested 1/5 of my
>>> limited
>>> supply this year and plan, as per your suggestions, to let the stalks
>>> “age” for 5 days, before running though the mill.  I’ll let the
>>> juice
>>> settle for a day and then siphon it off before boiling doing.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I’ll then compare the final product with a batch that doesn’t get
>>> the
>>> “ageing” treatment and see how they stack up.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks again to all who replied; as a beginner, I really appreciate
>>> your
>>> helpful feedback!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Paul
>>> 
>>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>> Windows
>>> 10
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Syrupmakers
>>> <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>>
>>> on behalf of ieck at ckt.net<mailto:ieck at ckt.net>
>>> <ieck at ckt.net<mailto:ieck at ckt.net>>
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2018 4:49:20 PM
>>> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
>>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>> 
>>> Paul,
>>> In  regard to production loss from bacteria, there are a number of
>>> factors which need to be considered. Does the cane already have red rot
>>> problems? Does the cane have multiple cracks or is freeze damage
>>> present?
>>> Just remember that anytime a stalk’s rind is breached, that is an
>>> entry
>>> point for bacteria.  Bacteria loves carbohydrates.
>>> It was our experience, back in the 70s, that healthy cane could be
>>> stored
>>> 7 to 10 days with little problems.  I would not recommend storing in to
>>> tight a stack or in a high moisture environment.
>>> 
>>> A moderate amount of bacteria actually lowers the pH which normally
>>> results in a lighter syrup.
>>> 
>>> We used a rising film evaporator. This was basically a vertical shell
>>> and
>>> tube heat exchanger with steam around the outside of the tubes. The
>>> juice
>>> was pumped at a specific rate up through the tubes.  This, coupled with
>>> our vacuum cooker, greatly reduced the amount of time the syrup resided
>>> at temperatures above 160°.
>>> 
>>> There were also times we would use a centrifuge, toward the end of the
>>> cooking process, to clarify the syrup.
>>> 
>>> We had a lot of fun. There are times that I almost wish we were back
>>> make’n sorghum again.
>>> 
>>> Ivan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi Ivan,
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>  Thank you very much for such a detailed and well written reply
>>>> regarding
>>>> the DE, and suggesting vacuum evaporation.  I haven’t heard of thin
>>>> film
>>>> evaporation, so I have some reading to do now!  Sounds like you had
>>>> quite a sophisticated operation.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> As far as letting the cut stalks “rest” before pressing – how
>>>> common is
>>>> this practice?  I’ve heard of people doing it before, but am sure
>>>> I’ve
>>>> read papers in the past that found this practice reduced sugar levels
>>>> due
>>>> to bacteria, which lead me to believe it wasn’t the best practice.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Paul
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>>> Windows
>>>> 10
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Syrupmakers
>>>> <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>>
>>>> on behalf of
>>>> ieck at ckt.net<mailto:ieck at ckt.net> <ieck at ckt.net<mailto:ieck at ckt.net>>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 9:15:03 PM
>>>> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
>>>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Hello Paul,
>>>> I have not read how others have responded to your question so if I am
>>>> repeating please forgive.
>>>> We have used literally tons of diatomaceous earth and it should be
>>>> viewed
>>>> as simply a filtering aid. In short, we would  preheat and pre-skim
>>>> 1200
>>>> gallons of juice.  Just after this skimming process was done, we would
>>>> thoroughly mix 50 pounds of diatomite and keep it suspended in the
>>>> juice
>>>> while we were pumping it through a pressure leaf filter.  This
>>>> filtering
>>>> process left very little skimming to do on our evaporator pans.
>>>> Toward the end of our sorghum making career, we were using a thin
>>>> film
>>>> evaporation process coupled with finishing the product under 21 inches
>>>> of
>>>> vacuum.
>>>> You will find that the better you clean your juice and the faster you
>>>> can
>>>> get it to 80 brix and then cooled to  160° or less, the lighter your
>>>> sorghum will be.  The longer your syrup stays at a temperature over
>>>> 160°
>>>> the more it will caramelize. This caramelization will add color and
>>>> stronger flavors. This is why we used “thin film” and vacuum in
>>>> our
>>>> process.
>>>>  I would caution against the use of any base or acid additives.  If
>>>> your
>>>> green juice becomes acidic it will produce a lighter syrup but not
>>>> always a desirable flavor. If you add some form of alkaline, you will
>>>> find that it will actually produce a darker syrup.
>>>> 
>>>> Pleasant regards,
>>>> Ivan
>>>> 
>>>> Very interesting Gail!  I did a quick search, but couldn’t find
>>>> any
>>>>> reference to using baking soda to help separation.  That
>>>>> doesn’t mean
>>>>> that your wrong though....anyone else have info on baking soda?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Keith: I’m not quite sure what you mean by the rising of the
>>>>> juice.
>>>>> Could you expand?  If the addition of lime makes a thicker foam,
>>>>> which
>>>>> helps the separation process, then I would imagine that the baking
>>>>> soda
>>>>> addition might work in the same way, since baking soda does cause the
>>>>> boiling juice to foam.  How do you neutralize the alkalinity of the
>>>>> lime?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Does anyone else have any other secrets/techniques to help in
>>>>> separation?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>>>> Windows
>>>>> 10
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Syrupmakers
>>>>> <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>>
>>>>> on behalf of
>>>>> Keith
>>>>> Evans <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com<mailto:dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 9:50:15 AM
>>>>> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I too have heard of the use of baking soda and water added to the
>>>>> juice
>>>>> to
>>>>> make it rise in the kettle, if it falls. By "it" , I mean the juice
>>>>> when
>>>>> it rises. Haven't heard of baking soda being used for separation. I'm
>>>>> in
>>>>> South East Alabama.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 11:44 AM
>>>>> tenacity at fidnet.com<mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com><mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com>
>>>>> <tenacity at fidnet.com<mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com><mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Here in the midwest I have heard of using baking soda to bring the
>>>>> "debris" to the top quickly. I have not tried this myself. but
>>>>> understand
>>>>> it is used by some Amish regularly. Anyone tried using it? And in
>>>>> what
>>>>> quantity for what size pan? We have both a 100 gallon and a 30 gallon
>>>>> batch pan. Would love to hear any experiences.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Gail in Missouri
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: "Paul Lefebvre"
>>>>> <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com><mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 10:20am
>>>>> To: "A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers"
>>>>> <syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net><mailto:syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks for the reply Keith,
>>>>> 
>>>>>    Here in Canada, pickling lime is banned as a food additive, so
>>>>> it’s
>>>>> nearly impossible to get.  ☹
>>>>> 
>>>>> Paul
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>>>> Windows
>>>>> 10
>>>>> 
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Syrupmakers
>>>>> <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net><mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>>
>>>>> on behalf of Keith Evans
>>>>> <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com<mailto:dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com><mailto:dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 8:04:11 AM
>>>>> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I've never used DE , but I use a pickeling lime at around 160° to
>>>>> help
>>>>> with separation. It causes a bigger foam (crust) for particles to get
>>>>> trapped in, therefore being able to remove those fine particles
>>>>> easier.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 12:57 PM Paul Lefebvre
>>>>> <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com><mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>> 
>>>>>   I was wondering if anyone on this list uses Diatomaceous Earth in
>>>>> their
>>>>> production of syrup.  Maasdam Sorghum Mill briefly mentions the
>>>>> addition of Diatomaceous Earth in
>>>>> this<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV6ztHccDy0> video at around
>>>>> 6:00
>>>>> to help remove particles, but doesn’t go into the exact
>>>>> specifics for
>>>>> using it, and was hoping I could get some feedback from anyone out
>>>>> there who knows more.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Paul
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>>>> Windows
>>>>> 10
>>>>> 
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>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
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>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
>> 
>> 
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