[Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?

Tue Oct 16 13:50:33 CDT 2018

 This is a vertical mill with hydraulic cylinders mounted above the top
roller.  I don’t remember the diameter of the rollers but I will try to
get that info if you’re interested in knowing.

> Is this a vertical or horizontal mill?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Syrupmakers [mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net] On Behalf
> Of ieck at ckt.net
> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2018 10:08 PM
> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>
> Scott, Paul or anyone else who my be interested, we have a mill we would
> be willing to sell. It has not been used since â€˜97 but has been under
> roof
> for all these years. The mill is more than a hobby mill and would be more
> suited for production.
>
>  If anyone is interested, just reply and I will provide more information.
>
> Thanks, Ivan
>
>
>
>
>  Paul
>>
>> Where are located that you survived the sugar cane aphid?  Or did you
>> spray?  I lost all my sorghum to aphid and wind.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Scott
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Oct 15, 2018, at 6:50 PM, Paul Lefebvre
>> <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Thank you all for the suggestions â€“ Iâ€™ve harvested 1/5 of my
>> limited
>> supply this year and plan, as per your suggestions, to let the stalks
>> â€œageâ€ for 5 days, before running though the mill.  Iâ€™ll let the
>> juice
>> settle for a day and then siphon it off before boiling doing.
>>
>>
>>
>> Iâ€™ll then compare the final product with a batch that doesnâ€™t get
>> the
>> â€œageingâ€ treatment and see how they stack up.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks again to all who replied; as a beginner, I really appreciate
>> your
>> helpful feedback!
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows
>> 10
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Syrupmakers
>> <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>>
>> on behalf of ieck at ckt.net<mailto:ieck at ckt.net>
>> <ieck at ckt.net<mailto:ieck at ckt.net>>
>> Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2018 4:49:20 PM
>> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>
>> Paul,
>>  In  regard to production loss from bacteria, there are a number of
>> factors which need to be considered. Does the cane already have red rot
>> problems? Does the cane have multiple cracks or is freeze damage
>> present?
>>  Just remember that anytime a stalkâ€™s rind is breached, that is an
>> entry
>> point for bacteria.  Bacteria loves carbohydrates.
>>  It was our experience, back in the 70s, that healthy cane could be
>> stored
>> 7 to 10 days with little problems.  I would not recommend storing in to
>> tight a stack or in a high moisture environment.
>>
>>  A moderate amount of bacteria actually lowers the pH which normally
>> results in a lighter syrup.
>>
>>  We used a rising film evaporator. This was basically a vertical shell
>> and
>> tube heat exchanger with steam around the outside of the tubes. The
>> juice
>> was pumped at a specific rate up through the tubes.  This, coupled with
>> our vacuum cooker, greatly reduced the amount of time the syrup resided
>> at temperatures above 160Â°.
>>
>>  There were also times we would use a centrifuge, toward the end of the
>> cooking process, to clarify the syrup.
>>
>>  We had a lot of fun. There are times that I almost wish we were back
>> makeâ€™n sorghum again.
>>
>> Ivan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  Hi Ivan,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   Thank you very much for such a detailed and well written reply
>>> regarding
>>> the DE, and suggesting vacuum evaporation.  I havenâ€™t heard of thin
>>> film
>>> evaporation, so I have some reading to do now!  Sounds like you had
>>> quite a sophisticated operation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As far as letting the cut stalks â€œrestâ€ before pressing â€“ how
>>> common is
>>> this practice?  Iâ€™ve heard of people doing it before, but am sure
>>> Iâ€™ve
>>> read papers in the past that found this practice reduced sugar levels
>>> due
>>> to bacteria, which lead me to believe it wasnâ€™t the best practice.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>> Windows
>>> 10
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Syrupmakers
>>> <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>>
>>> on behalf of
>>> ieck at ckt.net<mailto:ieck at ckt.net> <ieck at ckt.net<mailto:ieck at ckt.net>>
>>> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 9:15:03 PM
>>> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
>>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello Paul,
>>>  I have not read how others have responded to your question so if I am
>>> repeating please forgive.
>>>  We have used literally tons of diatomaceous earth and it should be
>>> viewed
>>> as simply a filtering aid. In short, we would  preheat and pre-skim
>>> 1200
>>> gallons of juice.  Just after this skimming process was done, we would
>>> thoroughly mix 50 pounds of diatomite and keep it suspended in the
>>> juice
>>> while we were pumping it through a pressure leaf filter.  This
>>> filtering
>>> process left very little skimming to do on our evaporator pans.
>>>  Toward the end of our sorghum making career, we were using a thin
>>> film
>>> evaporation process coupled with finishing the product under 21 inches
>>> of
>>> vacuum.
>>>  You will find that the better you clean your juice and the faster you
>>> can
>>> get it to 80 brix and then cooled to  160Â° or less, the lighter your
>>> sorghum will be.  The longer your syrup stays at a temperature over
>>> 160Â°
>>> the more it will caramelize. This caramelization will add color and
>>> stronger flavors. This is why we used â€œthin filmâ€ and vacuum in
>>> our
>>> process.
>>>   I would caution against the use of any base or acid additives.  If
>>> your
>>> green juice becomes acidic it will produce a lighter syrup but not
>>> always a desirable flavor. If you add some form of alkaline, you will
>>> find that it will actually produce a darker syrup.
>>>
>>> Pleasant regards,
>>> Ivan
>>>
>>>  Very interesting Gail!  I did a quick search, but couldnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t find
>>> any
>>>> reference to using baking soda to help separation.  That
>>>> doesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t mean
>>>> that your wrong though....anyone else have info on baking soda?
>>>>
>>>> Keith: IÃ¢â‚¬â„¢m not quite sure what you mean by the rising of the
>>>> juice.
>>>> Could you expand?  If the addition of lime makes a thicker foam,
>>>> which
>>>> helps the separation process, then I would imagine that the baking
>>>> soda
>>>> addition might work in the same way, since baking soda does cause the
>>>> boiling juice to foam.  How do you neutralize the alkalinity of the
>>>> lime?
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone else have any other secrets/techniques to help in
>>>> separation?
>>>>
>>>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>>> Windows
>>>> 10
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Syrupmakers
>>>> <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>>
>>>> on behalf of
>>>> Keith
>>>> Evans <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com<mailto:dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 9:50:15 AM
>>>> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
>>>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>>>
>>>> I too have heard of the use of baking soda and water added to the
>>>> juice
>>>> to
>>>> make it rise in the kettle, if it falls. By "it" , I mean the juice
>>>> when
>>>> it rises. Haven't heard of baking soda being used for separation. I'm
>>>> in
>>>> South East Alabama.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 11:44 AM
>>>> tenacity at fidnet.com<mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com><mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com>
>>>> <tenacity at fidnet.com<mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com><mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Here in the midwest I have heard of using baking soda to bring the
>>>> "debris" to the top quickly. I have not tried this myself. but
>>>> understand
>>>> it is used by some Amish regularly. Anyone tried using it? And in
>>>> what
>>>> quantity for what size pan? We have both a 100 gallon and a 30 gallon
>>>> batch pan. Would love to hear any experiences.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gail in Missouri
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: "Paul Lefebvre"
>>>> <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com><mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 10:20am
>>>> To: "A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers"
>>>> <syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net><mailto:syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the reply Keith,
>>>>
>>>>     Here in Canada, pickling lime is banned as a food additive, so
>>>> itÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s
>>>> nearly impossible to get.  Ã¢ËœÂ¹
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>>> Windows
>>>> 10
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Syrupmakers
>>>> <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net><mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>>
>>>> on behalf of Keith Evans
>>>> <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com<mailto:dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com><mailto:dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 8:04:11 AM
>>>> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
>>>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>>>
>>>> I've never used DE , but I use a pickeling lime at around 160Ã‚Â° to
>>>> help
>>>> with separation. It causes a bigger foam (crust) for particles to get
>>>> trapped in, therefore being able to remove those fine particles
>>>> easier.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 12:57 PM Paul Lefebvre
>>>> <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com><mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>>    I was wondering if anyone on this list uses Diatomaceous Earth in
>>>> their
>>>> production of syrup.  Maasdam Sorghum Mill briefly mentions the
>>>> addition of Diatomaceous Earth in
>>>> this<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV6ztHccDy0> video at around
>>>> 6:00
>>>> to help remove particles, but doesnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t go into the exact
>>>> specifics for
>>>> using it, and was hoping I could get some feedback from anyone out
>>>> there who knows more.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>>> Windows
>>>> 10
>>>>
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>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
>>
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