From scott at eldercomputersolutions.com  Tue Oct  9 22:02:51 2018
From: scott at eldercomputersolutions.com (Scott)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 03:02:51 +0000
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Sweet Sorghum Destroyed Again by Sugar Cane Aphid in
 East Tennessee
Message-ID: <D7E2E417.16CA8C%scott@eldercomputersolutions.com>

This is the 3rd year in row my sweet sorghum grown in East Tennessee has been damaged and/or destroyed by the sugar cane aphid.  Gets worse every year.  I grow organically so I have not tried the EPA banned product.  I have tried Neem Oil and Karanja Oil.  It has been suggested to try Neemix but at this point I am trying to decide will I every stop those pests.  I have considered just not growing for awhile and wait and see.  Any suggestions would be appreciated?

Thanks
Scott
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From rharrison922 at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 10 02:48:21 2018
From: rharrison922 at yahoo.com (Richard Harrison)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 07:48:21 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Sweet Sorghum Destroyed Again by Sugar Cane Aphid
 in East Tennessee
References: <2126059008.7797480.1539157701901.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <2126059008.7797480.1539157701901@mail.yahoo.com>

Scott,
   I have read that ants are usually a big part of the problem as they have a symbiotic relationship with aphids.
Have you noticed lots of ants?  Do you think you could control them and see if it will help or solve the problem?
Also, I have always noticed mealybugs rather than aphids, per se, on my sugarcane in NW FL. Ants also "farm"
mealybugs as well.

Richard Harrison
--------------------------------------------
On Tue, 10/9/18, Scott <scott at eldercomputersolutions.com> wrote:

 Subject: [Syrupmakers] Sweet Sorghum Destroyed Again by Sugar Cane Aphid in East Tennessee
 To: "syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net" <syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
 Date: Tuesday, October 9, 2018, 10:02 PM
 
 
 
  
 
 
 This is the 3rd year in row my sweet sorghum grown in
 East Tennessee has been damaged and/or destroyed by the
 sugar cane aphid. ?Gets worse every year. ?I grow
 organically so I have not tried the EPA banned product.
 ?I have tried Neem Oil and Karanja Oil.
  ?It has been suggested to try Neemix but at this point
 I am trying to decide will I every stop those pests. ?I
 have considered just not growing for awhile and wait and
 see. ?Any suggestions would be appreciated?
 
 
 
 Thanks
 Scott
 
 _______________________________________________
 Syrupmakers mailing list
 Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
 http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
 
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 


From scott at eldercomputersolutions.com  Wed Oct 10 06:09:23 2018
From: scott at eldercomputersolutions.com (Scott)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 11:09:23 +0000
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Sweet Sorghum Destroyed Again by Sugar Cane Aphid
 in East Tennessee
In-Reply-To: <2126059008.7797480.1539157701901@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <2126059008.7797480.1539157701901.ref@mail.yahoo.com>,
	<2126059008.7797480.1539157701901@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <3F46F235-34B2-4E4C-9E35-359B15EA85C3@eldercomputersolutions.com>

I have not noticed lots of ants. 

Scott

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 10, 2018, at 3:49 AM, Richard Harrison <rharrison922 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> Scott,
>   I have read that ants are usually a big part of the problem as they have a symbiotic relationship with aphids.
> Have you noticed lots of ants?  Do you think you could control them and see if it will help or solve the problem?
> Also, I have always noticed mealybugs rather than aphids, per se, on my sugarcane in NW FL. Ants also "farm"
> mealybugs as well.
> 
> Richard Harrison
> --------------------------------------------
> On Tue, 10/9/18, Scott <scott at eldercomputersolutions.com> wrote:
> 
> Subject: [Syrupmakers] Sweet Sorghum Destroyed Again by Sugar Cane Aphid in East Tennessee
> To: "syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net" <syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
> Date: Tuesday, October 9, 2018, 10:02 PM
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This is the 3rd year in row my sweet sorghum grown in
> East Tennessee has been damaged and/or destroyed by the
> sugar cane aphid.  Gets worse every year.  I grow
> organically so I have not tried the EPA banned product.
>  I have tried Neem Oil and Karanja Oil.
>   It has been suggested to try Neemix but at this point
> I am trying to decide will I every stop those pests.  I
> have considered just not growing for awhile and wait and
> see.  Any suggestions would be appreciated?
> 
> 
> 
> Thanks
> Scott
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
> 
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net


From dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com  Wed Oct 10 06:18:04 2018
From: dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com (Keith Evans)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 06:18:04 -0500
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Sweet Sorghum Destroyed Again by Sugar Cane Aphid
 in East Tennessee
In-Reply-To: <3F46F235-34B2-4E4C-9E35-359B15EA85C3@eldercomputersolutions.com>
References: <2126059008.7797480.1539157701901.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<2126059008.7797480.1539157701901@mail.yahoo.com>
	<3F46F235-34B2-4E4C-9E35-359B15EA85C3@eldercomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <CAJRr7p1O9CV2CUGze7M1UTz3soHBoDsOvBUHq9AFLMGq1bn_GQ@mail.gmail.com>

They say that lady bugs will take care of the aphid problem, if you get
enough of them

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018, 6:15 AM Scott <scott at eldercomputersolutions.com>
wrote:

> I have not noticed lots of ants.
>
> Scott
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Oct 10, 2018, at 3:49 AM, Richard Harrison <rharrison922 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Scott,
> >   I have read that ants are usually a big part of the problem as they
> have a symbiotic relationship with aphids.
> > Have you noticed lots of ants?  Do you think you could control them and
> see if it will help or solve the problem?
> > Also, I have always noticed mealybugs rather than aphids, per se, on my
> sugarcane in NW FL. Ants also "farm"
> > mealybugs as well.
> >
> > Richard Harrison
> > --------------------------------------------
> > On Tue, 10/9/18, Scott <scott at eldercomputersolutions.com> wrote:
> >
> > Subject: [Syrupmakers] Sweet Sorghum Destroyed Again by Sugar Cane Aphid
> in East Tennessee
> > To: "syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net" <syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
> > Date: Tuesday, October 9, 2018, 10:02 PM
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > This is the 3rd year in row my sweet sorghum grown in
> > East Tennessee has been damaged and/or destroyed by the
> > sugar cane aphid.  Gets worse every year.  I grow
> > organically so I have not tried the EPA banned product.
> >  I have tried Neem Oil and Karanja Oil.
> >   It has been suggested to try Neemix but at this point
> > I am trying to decide will I every stop those pests.  I
> > have considered just not growing for awhile and wait and
> > see.  Any suggestions would be appreciated?
> >
> >
> >
> > Thanks
> > Scott
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Syrupmakers mailing list
> > Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> > http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
> >
> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Syrupmakers mailing list
> > Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> > http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>
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From rharrison922 at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 10 07:38:15 2018
From: rharrison922 at yahoo.com (Richard Harrison)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 12:38:15 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Sweet Sorghum Destroyed Again by Sugar Cane Aphid
 in East Tennessee
References: <1625247417.7899431.1539175095322.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <1625247417.7899431.1539175095322@mail.yahoo.com>

Keith and Scott,.
    The only problem with relying on beneficials is that when they eat the population they would have nothing left to eat. Therefore, beneficials don't usually get so numerous as to destroy all their "food". Hence, the best you could hope for is some degree of control and not eradication.
    So, Scott, do you have mealybugs as well as aphids?

Richard
--------------------------------------------
On Wed, 10/10/18, Keith Evans <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com> wrote:

 Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Sweet Sorghum Destroyed Again by Sugar Cane Aphid in East Tennessee
 To: "A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers" <syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
 Date: Wednesday, October 10, 2018, 6:18 AM
 
 They say that lady
 bugs will take care of the aphid problem, if you get enough
 of them
 On Wed, Oct
 10, 2018, 6:15 AM Scott <scott at eldercomputersolutions.com>
 wrote:
 I have
 not noticed lots of ants. 
 
 
 
 Scott
 
 
 
 Sent from my iPhone
 
 
 
 > On Oct 10, 2018, at 3:49 AM, Richard Harrison <rharrison922 at yahoo.com>
 wrote:
 
 > 
 
 > Scott,
 
 >? ?I have read that ants are usually a big part of the
 problem as they have a symbiotic relationship with
 aphids.
 
 > Have you noticed lots of ants?? Do you think you could
 control them and see if it will help or solve the
 problem?
 
 > Also, I have always noticed mealybugs rather than
 aphids, per se, on my sugarcane in NW FL. Ants also
 "farm"
 
 > mealybugs as well.
 
 > 
 
 > Richard Harrison
 
 > --------------------------------------------
 
 > On Tue, 10/9/18, Scott <scott at eldercomputersolutions.com>
 wrote:
 
 > 
 
 > Subject: [Syrupmakers] Sweet Sorghum Destroyed Again by
 Sugar Cane Aphid in East Tennessee
 
 > To: "syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net"
 <syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
 
 > Date: Tuesday, October 9, 2018, 10:02 PM
 
 > 
 
 > 
 
 > 
 
 > 
 
 > 
 
 > 
 
 > This is the 3rd year in row my sweet sorghum grown
 in
 
 > East Tennessee has been damaged and/or destroyed by
 the
 
 > sugar cane aphid.? Gets worse every year.? I grow
 
 > organically so I have not tried the EPA banned
 product.
 
 >? I have tried Neem Oil and Karanja Oil.
 
 >? ?It has been suggested to try Neemix but at this
 point
 
 > I am trying to decide will I every stop those pests.?
 I
 
 > have considered just not growing for awhile and wait
 and
 
 > see.? Any suggestions would be appreciated?
 
 > 
 
 > 
 
 > 
 
 > Thanks
 
 > Scott
 
 > 
 
 > _______________________________________________
 
 > Syrupmakers mailing list
 
 > Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
 
 > http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
 
 > 
 
 > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 > 
 
 > 
 
 > 
 
 > _______________________________________________
 
 > Syrupmakers mailing list
 
 > Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
 
 > http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
 
 
 
 _______________________________________________
 
 Syrupmakers mailing list
 
 Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
 
 http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
 
 _______________________________________________
 Syrupmakers mailing list
 Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
 http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
 
 -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
 
 


From scott at eldercomputersolutions.com  Wed Oct 10 07:57:38 2018
From: scott at eldercomputersolutions.com (Scott)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 12:57:38 +0000
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Sweet Sorghum Destroyed Again by Sugar Cane Aphid
 in East Tennessee
In-Reply-To: <1625247417.7899431.1539175095322@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <1625247417.7899431.1539175095322.ref@mail.yahoo.com>,
	<1625247417.7899431.1539175095322@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <A8DAC7D9-937F-4DC7-B549-2B5B8DD00B01@eldercomputersolutions.com>

No I don?t have mealybugs. 

I have buckwheat to bring in the beneficials. I have tons of lady bugs but they can?t kill aphids fast enough to keep up 

Scott

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 10, 2018, at 8:40 AM, Richard Harrison <rharrison922 at yahoo.com> wrote:
> 
> Keith and Scott,.
>    The only problem with relying on beneficials is that when they eat the population they would have nothing left to eat. Therefore, beneficials don't usually get so numerous as to destroy all their "food". Hence, the best you could hope for is some degree of control and not eradication.
>    So, Scott, do you have mealybugs as well as aphids?
> 
> Richard
> --------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 10/10/18, Keith Evans <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Sweet Sorghum Destroyed Again by Sugar Cane Aphid in East Tennessee
> To: "A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers" <syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
> Date: Wednesday, October 10, 2018, 6:18 AM
> 
> They say that lady
> bugs will take care of the aphid problem, if you get enough
> of them
> On Wed, Oct
> 10, 2018, 6:15 AM Scott <scott at eldercomputersolutions.com>
> wrote:
> I have
> not noticed lots of ants. 
> 
> 
> 
> Scott
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> 
> 
>> On Oct 10, 2018, at 3:49 AM, Richard Harrison <rharrison922 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> 
> 
>> Scott,
> 
>>    I have read that ants are usually a big part of the
> problem as they have a symbiotic relationship with
> aphids.
> 
>> Have you noticed lots of ants?  Do you think you could
> control them and see if it will help or solve the
> problem?
> 
>> Also, I have always noticed mealybugs rather than
> aphids, per se, on my sugarcane in NW FL. Ants also
> "farm"
> 
>> mealybugs as well.
> 
>> 
> 
>> Richard Harrison
> 
>> --------------------------------------------
> 
>> On Tue, 10/9/18, Scott <scott at eldercomputersolutions.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> 
> 
>> Subject: [Syrupmakers] Sweet Sorghum Destroyed Again by
> Sugar Cane Aphid in East Tennessee
> 
>> To: "syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net"
> <syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
> 
>> Date: Tuesday, October 9, 2018, 10:02 PM
> 
>> 
> 
>> 
> 
>> 
> 
>> 
> 
>> 
> 
>> 
> 
>> This is the 3rd year in row my sweet sorghum grown
> in
> 
>> East Tennessee has been damaged and/or destroyed by
> the
> 
>> sugar cane aphid.  Gets worse every year.  I grow
> 
>> organically so I have not tried the EPA banned
> product.
> 
>>   I have tried Neem Oil and Karanja Oil.
> 
>>    It has been suggested to try Neemix but at this
> point
> 
>> I am trying to decide will I every stop those pests. 
> I
> 
>> have considered just not growing for awhile and wait
> and
> 
>> see.  Any suggestions would be appreciated?
> 
>> 
> 
>> 
> 
>> 
> 
>> Thanks
> 
>> Scott
> 
>> 
> 
>> _______________________________________________
> 
>> Syrupmakers mailing list
> 
>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> 
>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
> 
>> 
> 
>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> 
>> 
> 
>> 
> 
>> 
> 
>> _______________________________________________
> 
>> Syrupmakers mailing list
> 
>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> 
>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> 
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> 
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> 
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
> 
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net


From kirkdavidson at yahoo.com  Wed Oct 10 08:02:09 2018
From: kirkdavidson at yahoo.com (Kirk Palis)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 13:02:09 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Sweet Sorghum Destroyed Again by Sugar Cane Aphid
 in East Tennessee
In-Reply-To: <D7E2E417.16CA8C%scott@eldercomputersolutions.com>
References: <D7E2E417.16CA8C%scott@eldercomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <916578720.7567375.1539176529980@mail.yahoo.com>

 I have heard that lady bugs can tackle this problem. ?A quick search shows 1500 ladybugs for $12.95. ?I would give that a try. ?Here is where I found them:?https://www.arbico-organics.com/product/ladybird-beetle-ladybugs-hippodamia-convergens?msclkid=7506a50d19851f1ed9dffeb0e18639d8&utm_source=bing&utm_medium=cpc&utm_campaign=Ladybugs&utm_term=ladybugs%20for%20sale&utm_content=ladybugs%20for%20sale
I am sure there are other sources.
Kirk
    On Tuesday, October 9, 2018, 11:03:13 PM EDT, Scott <scott at eldercomputersolutions.com> wrote:  
 
  This is the 3rd year in row my sweet sorghum grown in East Tennessee has been damaged and/or destroyed by the sugar cane aphid. ?Gets worse every year. ?I grow organically so I have not tried the EPA banned product. ?I have tried Neem Oil and Karanja Oil. ?It has been suggested to try Neemix but at this point I am trying to decide will I every stop those pests. ?I have considered just not growing for awhile and wait and see. ?Any suggestions would be appreciated?
ThanksScott_______________________________________________
Syrupmakers mailing list
Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
  
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From victtoriyabeveraages at gmail.com  Wed Oct 10 08:03:02 2018
From: victtoriyabeveraages at gmail.com (victtoriya)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 18:33:02 +0530
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Sweet Sorghum Destroyed Again by Sugar Cane Aphid
 in East Tennessee
In-Reply-To: <A8DAC7D9-937F-4DC7-B549-2B5B8DD00B01@eldercomputersolutions.com>
References: <1625247417.7899431.1539175095322.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1625247417.7899431.1539175095322@mail.yahoo.com>
	<A8DAC7D9-937F-4DC7-B549-2B5B8DD00B01@eldercomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <CA+jbcjsJzMm3teMUFzpMWi2agcbE5w+EMWBFGysA31i0895hTA@mail.gmail.com>

Pls don't send any msg to this ID.

Thank you


On Wed, Oct 10, 2018, 6:28 PM Scott <scott at eldercomputersolutions.com>
wrote:

> No I don?t have mealybugs.
>
> I have buckwheat to bring in the beneficials. I have tons of lady bugs but
> they can?t kill aphids fast enough to keep up
>
> Scott
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Oct 10, 2018, at 8:40 AM, Richard Harrison <rharrison922 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Keith and Scott,.
> >    The only problem with relying on beneficials is that when they eat
> the population they would have nothing left to eat. Therefore, beneficials
> don't usually get so numerous as to destroy all their "food". Hence, the
> best you could hope for is some degree of control and not eradication.
> >    So, Scott, do you have mealybugs as well as aphids?
> >
> > Richard
> > --------------------------------------------
> > On Wed, 10/10/18, Keith Evans <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Sweet Sorghum Destroyed Again by Sugar Cane
> Aphid in East Tennessee
> > To: "A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers" <
> syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
> > Date: Wednesday, October 10, 2018, 6:18 AM
> >
> > They say that lady
> > bugs will take care of the aphid problem, if you get enough
> > of them
> > On Wed, Oct
> > 10, 2018, 6:15 AM Scott <scott at eldercomputersolutions.com>
> > wrote:
> > I have
> > not noticed lots of ants.
> >
> >
> >
> > Scott
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Oct 10, 2018, at 3:49 AM, Richard Harrison <rharrison922 at yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >
> >> Scott,
> >
> >>    I have read that ants are usually a big part of the
> > problem as they have a symbiotic relationship with
> > aphids.
> >
> >> Have you noticed lots of ants?  Do you think you could
> > control them and see if it will help or solve the
> > problem?
> >
> >> Also, I have always noticed mealybugs rather than
> > aphids, per se, on my sugarcane in NW FL. Ants also
> > "farm"
> >
> >> mealybugs as well.
> >
> >>
> >
> >> Richard Harrison
> >
> >> --------------------------------------------
> >
> >> On Tue, 10/9/18, Scott <scott at eldercomputersolutions.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >
> >> Subject: [Syrupmakers] Sweet Sorghum Destroyed Again by
> > Sugar Cane Aphid in East Tennessee
> >
> >> To: "syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net"
> > <syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
> >
> >> Date: Tuesday, October 9, 2018, 10:02 PM
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >> This is the 3rd year in row my sweet sorghum grown
> > in
> >
> >> East Tennessee has been damaged and/or destroyed by
> > the
> >
> >> sugar cane aphid.  Gets worse every year.  I grow
> >
> >> organically so I have not tried the EPA banned
> > product.
> >
> >>   I have tried Neem Oil and Karanja Oil.
> >
> >>    It has been suggested to try Neemix but at this
> > point
> >
> >> I am trying to decide will I every stop those pests.
> > I
> >
> >> have considered just not growing for awhile and wait
> > and
> >
> >> see.  Any suggestions would be appreciated?
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >> Thanks
> >
> >> Scott
> >
> >>
> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >
> >> Syrupmakers mailing list
> >
> >> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> >
> >> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
> >
> >>
> >
> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >
> >> Syrupmakers mailing list
> >
> >> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> >
> >> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Syrupmakers mailing list
> >
> > Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> >
> > http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Syrupmakers mailing list
> > Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> > http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
> >
> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Syrupmakers mailing list
> > Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> > http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>
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From matheson.jc at gmail.com  Wed Oct 10 09:36:42 2018
From: matheson.jc at gmail.com (John Matheson)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 10:36:42 -0400
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Sweet Sorghum Destroyed Again by Sugar Cane Aphid
 in East Tennessee
In-Reply-To: <A8DAC7D9-937F-4DC7-B549-2B5B8DD00B01@eldercomputersolutions.com>
References: <1625247417.7899431.1539175095322.ref@mail.yahoo.com>
	<1625247417.7899431.1539175095322@mail.yahoo.com>
	<A8DAC7D9-937F-4DC7-B549-2B5B8DD00B01@eldercomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <CAO453BrOfD2V0qbd12rYih7y54qn7hebm3x9KT7FBKOxwERO=Q@mail.gmail.com>

Scott,
This is the second year I've had the aphids in southern NC, first year I
knew what it was. My ants are fire ants, so I attempt to control their
numbers, but I don't treat the sorghum plants. Lots of those as in an
ladybugs here, to no avail.

The aphids seem to arrive late in the season. Anyone try to plant early to
avoid their arrival in numbers? I read that they overwinter in the Deep
South.

-John

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018, 8:58 AM Scott <scott at eldercomputersolutions.com>
wrote:

> No I don?t have mealybugs.
>
> I have buckwheat to bring in the beneficials. I have tons of lady bugs but
> they can?t kill aphids fast enough to keep up
>
> Scott
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> > On Oct 10, 2018, at 8:40 AM, Richard Harrison <rharrison922 at yahoo.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > Keith and Scott,.
> >    The only problem with relying on beneficials is that when they eat
> the population they would have nothing left to eat. Therefore, beneficials
> don't usually get so numerous as to destroy all their "food". Hence, the
> best you could hope for is some degree of control and not eradication.
> >    So, Scott, do you have mealybugs as well as aphids?
> >
> > Richard
> > --------------------------------------------
> > On Wed, 10/10/18, Keith Evans <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Sweet Sorghum Destroyed Again by Sugar Cane
> Aphid in East Tennessee
> > To: "A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers" <
> syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
> > Date: Wednesday, October 10, 2018, 6:18 AM
> >
> > They say that lady
> > bugs will take care of the aphid problem, if you get enough
> > of them
> > On Wed, Oct
> > 10, 2018, 6:15 AM Scott <scott at eldercomputersolutions.com>
> > wrote:
> > I have
> > not noticed lots of ants.
> >
> >
> >
> > Scott
> >
> >
> >
> > Sent from my iPhone
> >
> >
> >
> >> On Oct 10, 2018, at 3:49 AM, Richard Harrison <rharrison922 at yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >
> >> Scott,
> >
> >>    I have read that ants are usually a big part of the
> > problem as they have a symbiotic relationship with
> > aphids.
> >
> >> Have you noticed lots of ants?  Do you think you could
> > control them and see if it will help or solve the
> > problem?
> >
> >> Also, I have always noticed mealybugs rather than
> > aphids, per se, on my sugarcane in NW FL. Ants also
> > "farm"
> >
> >> mealybugs as well.
> >
> >>
> >
> >> Richard Harrison
> >
> >> --------------------------------------------
> >
> >> On Tue, 10/9/18, Scott <scott at eldercomputersolutions.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >>
> >
> >> Subject: [Syrupmakers] Sweet Sorghum Destroyed Again by
> > Sugar Cane Aphid in East Tennessee
> >
> >> To: "syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net"
> > <syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
> >
> >> Date: Tuesday, October 9, 2018, 10:02 PM
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >> This is the 3rd year in row my sweet sorghum grown
> > in
> >
> >> East Tennessee has been damaged and/or destroyed by
> > the
> >
> >> sugar cane aphid.  Gets worse every year.  I grow
> >
> >> organically so I have not tried the EPA banned
> > product.
> >
> >>   I have tried Neem Oil and Karanja Oil.
> >
> >>    It has been suggested to try Neemix but at this
> > point
> >
> >> I am trying to decide will I every stop those pests.
> > I
> >
> >> have considered just not growing for awhile and wait
> > and
> >
> >> see.  Any suggestions would be appreciated?
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >> Thanks
> >
> >> Scott
> >
> >>
> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >
> >> Syrupmakers mailing list
> >
> >> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> >
> >> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
> >
> >>
> >
> >> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >>
> >
> >> _______________________________________________
> >
> >> Syrupmakers mailing list
> >
> >> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> >
> >> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> >
> > Syrupmakers mailing list
> >
> > Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> >
> > http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Syrupmakers mailing list
> > Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> > http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
> >
> > -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
> >
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Syrupmakers mailing list
> > Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> > http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>
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From burgeoningfarm at gmail.com  Wed Oct 10 11:49:04 2018
From: burgeoningfarm at gmail.com (burgeoningfarm)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 12:49:04 -0400
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Sweet Sorghum Destroyed Again by Sugar Cane Aphid
 in East Tennessee
In-Reply-To: <CAO453BrOfD2V0qbd12rYih7y54qn7hebm3x9KT7FBKOxwERO=Q@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <5bbe2d82.1c69fb81.b4d8a.53af@mx.google.com>

At the sweet sorghum producers meeting in Feb this was a hot topic. The aphids overwinter where it doesn't freeze then move north as it warms. There were test plots in I think TN just miles apart. Some got no damage some total loss. No reason known. It was mentioned about using Safer insect soap. The major problem is the aphids are on the bottom of the leaf so you to spray from the bottom up. At least this is my understanding.


Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone
-------- Original message --------From: John Matheson <matheson.jc at gmail.com> Date: 10/10/18  10:36 AM  (GMT-05:00) To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers <syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Sweet Sorghum Destroyed Again by Sugar Cane Aphid in East Tennessee 
Scott,?This is the second year I've had the aphids in southern NC, first year I knew what it was. My ants are fire ants, so I attempt to control their numbers, but I don't treat the sorghum plants. Lots of those as in an ladybugs here, to no avail.
The aphids seem to arrive late in the season. Anyone try to plant early to avoid their arrival in numbers? I read that they overwinter in the Deep South.
-John
On Wed, Oct 10, 2018, 8:58 AM Scott <scott at eldercomputersolutions.com> wrote:
No I don?t have mealybugs. 



I have buckwheat to bring in the beneficials. I have tons of lady bugs but they can?t kill aphids fast enough to keep up 



Scott



Sent from my iPhone



> On Oct 10, 2018, at 8:40 AM, Richard Harrison <rharrison922 at yahoo.com> wrote:

> 

> Keith and Scott,.

>? ? The only problem with relying on beneficials is that when they eat the population they would have nothing left to eat. Therefore, beneficials don't usually get so numerous as to destroy all their "food". Hence, the best you could hope for is some degree of control and not eradication.

>? ? So, Scott, do you have mealybugs as well as aphids?

> 

> Richard

> --------------------------------------------

> On Wed, 10/10/18, Keith Evans <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com> wrote:

> 

> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Sweet Sorghum Destroyed Again by Sugar Cane Aphid in East Tennessee

> To: "A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers" <syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>

> Date: Wednesday, October 10, 2018, 6:18 AM

> 

> They say that lady

> bugs will take care of the aphid problem, if you get enough

> of them

> On Wed, Oct

> 10, 2018, 6:15 AM Scott <scott at eldercomputersolutions.com>

> wrote:

> I have

> not noticed lots of ants. 

> 

> 

> 

> Scott

> 

> 

> 

> Sent from my iPhone

> 

> 

> 

>> On Oct 10, 2018, at 3:49 AM, Richard Harrison <rharrison922 at yahoo.com>

> wrote:

> 

>> 

> 

>> Scott,

> 

>>? ? I have read that ants are usually a big part of the

> problem as they have a symbiotic relationship with

> aphids.

> 

>> Have you noticed lots of ants?? Do you think you could

> control them and see if it will help or solve the

> problem?

> 

>> Also, I have always noticed mealybugs rather than

> aphids, per se, on my sugarcane in NW FL. Ants also

> "farm"

> 

>> mealybugs as well.

> 

>> 

> 

>> Richard Harrison

> 

>> --------------------------------------------

> 

>> On Tue, 10/9/18, Scott <scott at eldercomputersolutions.com>

> wrote:

> 

>> 

> 

>> Subject: [Syrupmakers] Sweet Sorghum Destroyed Again by

> Sugar Cane Aphid in East Tennessee

> 

>> To: "syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net"

> <syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>

> 

>> Date: Tuesday, October 9, 2018, 10:02 PM

> 

>> 

> 

>> 

> 

>> 

> 

>> 

> 

>> 

> 

>> 

> 

>> This is the 3rd year in row my sweet sorghum grown

> in

> 

>> East Tennessee has been damaged and/or destroyed by

> the

> 

>> sugar cane aphid.? Gets worse every year.? I grow

> 

>> organically so I have not tried the EPA banned

> product.

> 

>>? ?I have tried Neem Oil and Karanja Oil.

> 

>>? ? It has been suggested to try Neemix but at this

> point

> 

>> I am trying to decide will I every stop those pests. 

> I

> 

>> have considered just not growing for awhile and wait

> and

> 

>> see.? Any suggestions would be appreciated?

> 

>> 

> 

>> 

> 

>> 

> 

>> Thanks

> 

>> Scott

> 

>> 

> 

>> _______________________________________________

> 

>> Syrupmakers mailing list

> 

>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net

> 

>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net

> 

>> 

> 

>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----

> 

>> 

> 

>> 

> 

>> 

> 

>> _______________________________________________

> 

>> Syrupmakers mailing list

> 

>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net

> 

>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net

> 

> 

> 

> _______________________________________________

> 

> Syrupmakers mailing list

> 

> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net

> 

> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net

> 

> _______________________________________________

> Syrupmakers mailing list

> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net

> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net

> 

> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----

> 

> 

> 

> _______________________________________________

> Syrupmakers mailing list

> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net

> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net



_______________________________________________

Syrupmakers mailing list

Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net

http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net


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From scott at eldercomputersolutions.com  Wed Oct 10 12:17:42 2018
From: scott at eldercomputersolutions.com (Scott)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 17:17:42 +0000
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Sweet Sorghum Destroyed Again by Sugar Cane Aphid
 in East Tennessee
In-Reply-To: <5bbe2d82.1c69fb81.b4d8a.53af@mx.google.com>
References: <CAO453BrOfD2V0qbd12rYih7y54qn7hebm3x9KT7FBKOxwERO=Q@mail.gmail.com>,
	<5bbe2d82.1c69fb81.b4d8a.53af@mx.google.com>
Message-ID: <2A91531F-3BA4-4C54-A295-0E3A229E04A0@eldercomputersolutions.com>

Yes I have been to that convention year before.

Problem is most of the big farmers spray with the chemical that has to have special permit every year to spray.

I use a backpack powered blower to put my organic oil up under the leafs.

Scott

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 10, 2018, at 12:51 PM, burgeoningfarm <burgeoningfarm at gmail.com<mailto:burgeoningfarm at gmail.com>> wrote:

At the sweet sorghum producers meeting in Feb this was a hot topic. The aphids overwinter where it doesn't freeze then move north as it warms. There were test plots in I think TN just miles apart. Some got no damage some total loss. No reason known. It was mentioned about using Safer insect soap. The major problem is the aphids are on the bottom of the leaf so you to spray from the bottom up. At least this is my understanding.



Sent from my Verizon, Samsung Galaxy smartphone

-------- Original message --------
From: John Matheson <matheson.jc at gmail.com<mailto:matheson.jc at gmail.com>>
Date: 10/10/18 10:36 AM (GMT-05:00)
To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers <syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>>
Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Sweet Sorghum Destroyed Again by Sugar Cane Aphid in East Tennessee

Scott,
This is the second year I've had the aphids in southern NC, first year I knew what it was. My ants are fire ants, so I attempt to control their numbers, but I don't treat the sorghum plants. Lots of those as in an ladybugs here, to no avail.

The aphids seem to arrive late in the season. Anyone try to plant early to avoid their arrival in numbers? I read that they overwinter in the Deep South.

-John

On Wed, Oct 10, 2018, 8:58 AM Scott <scott at eldercomputersolutions.com<mailto:scott at eldercomputersolutions.com>> wrote:
No I don?t have mealybugs.

I have buckwheat to bring in the beneficials. I have tons of lady bugs but they can?t kill aphids fast enough to keep up

Scott

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 10, 2018, at 8:40 AM, Richard Harrison <rharrison922 at yahoo.com<mailto:rharrison922 at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
> Keith and Scott,.
>    The only problem with relying on beneficials is that when they eat the population they would have nothing left to eat. Therefore, beneficials don't usually get so numerous as to destroy all their "food". Hence, the best you could hope for is some degree of control and not eradication.
>    So, Scott, do you have mealybugs as well as aphids?
>
> Richard
> --------------------------------------------
> On Wed, 10/10/18, Keith Evans <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com<mailto:dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Sweet Sorghum Destroyed Again by Sugar Cane Aphid in East Tennessee
> To: "A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers" <syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>>
> Date: Wednesday, October 10, 2018, 6:18 AM
>
> They say that lady
> bugs will take care of the aphid problem, if you get enough
> of them
> On Wed, Oct
> 10, 2018, 6:15 AM Scott <scott at eldercomputersolutions.com<mailto:scott at eldercomputersolutions.com>>
> wrote:
> I have
> not noticed lots of ants.
>
>
>
> Scott
>
>
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>
>
>> On Oct 10, 2018, at 3:49 AM, Richard Harrison <rharrison922 at yahoo.com<mailto:rharrison922 at yahoo.com>>
> wrote:
>
>>
>
>> Scott,
>
>>    I have read that ants are usually a big part of the
> problem as they have a symbiotic relationship with
> aphids.
>
>> Have you noticed lots of ants?  Do you think you could
> control them and see if it will help or solve the
> problem?
>
>> Also, I have always noticed mealybugs rather than
> aphids, per se, on my sugarcane in NW FL. Ants also
> "farm"
>
>> mealybugs as well.
>
>>
>
>> Richard Harrison
>
>> --------------------------------------------
>
>> On Tue, 10/9/18, Scott <scott at eldercomputersolutions.com<mailto:scott at eldercomputersolutions.com>>
> wrote:
>
>>
>
>> Subject: [Syrupmakers] Sweet Sorghum Destroyed Again by
> Sugar Cane Aphid in East Tennessee
>
>> To: "syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>"
> <syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>>
>
>> Date: Tuesday, October 9, 2018, 10:02 PM
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> This is the 3rd year in row my sweet sorghum grown
> in
>
>> East Tennessee has been damaged and/or destroyed by
> the
>
>> sugar cane aphid.  Gets worse every year.  I grow
>
>> organically so I have not tried the EPA banned
> product.
>
>>   I have tried Neem Oil and Karanja Oil.
>
>>    It has been suggested to try Neemix but at this
> point
>
>> I am trying to decide will I every stop those pests.
> I
>
>> have considered just not growing for awhile and wait
> and
>
>> see.  Any suggestions would be appreciated?
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> Thanks
>
>> Scott
>
>>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>
>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>
>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
>
>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>
>>
>
>> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
>>
>
>>
>
>>
>
>> _______________________________________________
>
>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>
>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
>
>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
>
> Syrupmakers mailing list
>
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
>
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>
> -----Inline Attachment Follows-----
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net

_______________________________________________
Syrupmakers mailing list
Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
_______________________________________________
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From squid101 at fastmail.us  Wed Oct 10 12:58:44 2018
From: squid101 at fastmail.us (squid101)
Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2018 13:58:44 -0400
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Sweet Sorghum Destroyed Again by Sugar Cane Aphid
 in East Tennessee
In-Reply-To: <uq1t331h5mf2kdlxp4pk01ft.1539185095521@email.android.com>
Message-ID: <0hbve2ljswm8xojkwr7p5f7c.1539194324799@email.android.com>



All of the info sites I've read say organically three choices.??Neem and garlic oil.? Deterrent rather than killer so limited effectiveness.Beneficials: ladybugs and some others (download list from tamu site)Plant earlier if possible .
Perhaps a combo will at least reduce the pressure?
Lot of info here, including an invite to send specific questions to one of their researchers.? Maybe you could drop him a note?
https://agrilifeextension.tamu.edu/solutions/sugarcane-aphid/?

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From paullefebvre at hotmail.com  Thu Oct 11 12:54:44 2018
From: paullefebvre at hotmail.com (Paul Lefebvre)
Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2018 17:54:44 +0000
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
Message-ID: <MWHPR22MB092638034056CDCC80363024CEE10@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>

Hi All,

   I was wondering if anyone on this list uses Diatomaceous Earth in their production of syrup.  Maasdam Sorghum Mill briefly mentions the addition of Diatomaceous Earth in this<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV6ztHccDy0> video at around 6:00 to help remove particles, but doesn?t go into the exact specifics for using it, and was hoping I could get some feedback from anyone out there who knows more.

Cheers,

Paul

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

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From dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 10:04:11 2018
From: dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com (Keith Evans)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2018 10:04:11 -0500
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
In-Reply-To: <MWHPR22MB092638034056CDCC80363024CEE10@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MWHPR22MB092638034056CDCC80363024CEE10@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAJRr7p3z9+=qSVL75t5kQw6sQnnk=FXv0P6_hRLsvqre4o++LA@mail.gmail.com>

I've never used DE , but I use a pickeling lime at around 160? to help with
separation. It causes a bigger foam (crust) for particles to get trapped
in, therefore being able to remove those fine particles easier.

On Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 12:57 PM Paul Lefebvre <paullefebvre at hotmail.com>
wrote:

> Hi All,
>
>
>
>    I was wondering if anyone on this list uses Diatomaceous Earth in their
> production of syrup.  Maasdam Sorghum Mill briefly mentions the addition of
> Diatomaceous Earth in this <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV6ztHccDy0>
> video at around 6:00 to help remove particles, but doesn?t go into the
> exact specifics for using it, and was hoping I could get some feedback from
> anyone out there who knows more.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>
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From paullefebvre at hotmail.com  Sat Oct 13 10:20:29 2018
From: paullefebvre at hotmail.com (Paul Lefebvre)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2018 15:20:29 +0000
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
In-Reply-To: <CAJRr7p3z9+=qSVL75t5kQw6sQnnk=FXv0P6_hRLsvqre4o++LA@mail.gmail.com>
References: <MWHPR22MB092638034056CDCC80363024CEE10@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>,
	<CAJRr7p3z9+=qSVL75t5kQw6sQnnk=FXv0P6_hRLsvqre4o++LA@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MWHPR22MB0926FA9AB7B8C3FED4EF047FCEE30@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>

Thanks for the reply Keith,

    Here in Canada, pickling lime is banned as a food additive, so it?s nearly impossible to get.  ?

Paul

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

________________________________
From: Syrupmakers <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net> on behalf of Keith Evans <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 8:04:11 AM
To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?

I've never used DE , but I use a pickeling lime at around 160? to help with separation. It causes a bigger foam (crust) for particles to get trapped in, therefore being able to remove those fine particles easier.

On Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 12:57 PM Paul Lefebvre <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>> wrote:
Hi All,

   I was wondering if anyone on this list uses Diatomaceous Earth in their production of syrup.  Maasdam Sorghum Mill briefly mentions the addition of Diatomaceous Earth in this<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV6ztHccDy0> video at around 6:00 to help remove particles, but doesn?t go into the exact specifics for using it, and was hoping I could get some feedback from anyone out there who knows more.

Cheers,

Paul

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

_______________________________________________
Syrupmakers mailing list
Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
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From dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 10:29:07 2018
From: dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com (Keith Evans)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2018 10:29:07 -0500
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
In-Reply-To: <MWHPR22MB0926FA9AB7B8C3FED4EF047FCEE30@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MWHPR22MB092638034056CDCC80363024CEE10@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAJRr7p3z9+=qSVL75t5kQw6sQnnk=FXv0P6_hRLsvqre4o++LA@mail.gmail.com>
	<MWHPR22MB0926FA9AB7B8C3FED4EF047FCEE30@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <CAJRr7p0TG=8qfCJdN31_m5M=ymZJDTf+64=EgxqSTvrpM3z9QA@mail.gmail.com>

Banned pickeling lime? Wow. I didn't know that.

On Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 10:20 AM Paul Lefebvre <paullefebvre at hotmail.com>
wrote:

> Thanks for the reply Keith,
>
>
>
>     Here in Canada, pickling lime is banned as a food additive, so it?s
> nearly impossible to get.  ?
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Syrupmakers <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net> on behalf of
> Keith Evans <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 13, 2018 8:04:11 AM
> *To:* A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
> *Subject:* Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>
> I've never used DE , but I use a pickeling lime at around 160? to help
> with separation. It causes a bigger foam (crust) for particles to get
> trapped in, therefore being able to remove those fine particles easier.
>
> On Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 12:57 PM Paul Lefebvre <paullefebvre at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>>
>>
>>    I was wondering if anyone on this list uses Diatomaceous Earth in
>> their production of syrup.  Maasdam Sorghum Mill briefly mentions the
>> addition of Diatomaceous Earth in this
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV6ztHccDy0> video at around 6:00 to
>> help remove particles, but doesn?t go into the exact specifics for using
>> it, and was hoping I could get some feedback from anyone out there who
>> knows more.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows 10
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>
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From cfaggert at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 10:39:38 2018
From: cfaggert at gmail.com (cfaggert at gmail.com)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2018 10:39:38 -0500
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
In-Reply-To: <MWHPR22MB0926FA9AB7B8C3FED4EF047FCEE30@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
References: <MWHPR22MB092638034056CDCC80363024CEE10@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
	<CAJRr7p3z9+=qSVL75t5kQw6sQnnk=FXv0P6_hRLsvqre4o++LA@mail.gmail.com>
	<MWHPR22MB0926FA9AB7B8C3FED4EF047FCEE30@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <A9752B3F-29FA-4772-8CDC-54242489A87D@gmail.com>

I ordered a filter press from smoky lake maple last year, and will try in out in the next few weeks.  It uses DTE to create the filter cake that the syrup is run through.  Will keep everyone posted.

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 13, 2018, at 10:20 AM, Paul Lefebvre <paullefebvre at hotmail.com> wrote:
> 
> Thanks for the reply Keith,
>  
>     Here in Canada, pickling lime is banned as a food additive, so it?s nearly impossible to get.  ?
>  
> Paul
>  
> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>  
> From: Syrupmakers <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net> on behalf of Keith Evans <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>
> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 8:04:11 AM
> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth? 
>  
> I've never used DE , but I use a pickeling lime at around 160? to help with separation. It causes a bigger foam (crust) for particles to get trapped in, therefore being able to remove those fine particles easier.
> 
>> On Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 12:57 PM Paul Lefebvre <paullefebvre at hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>  
>>    I was wondering if anyone on this list uses Diatomaceous Earth in their production of syrup.  Maasdam Sorghum Mill briefly mentions the addition of Diatomaceous Earth in this video at around 6:00 to help remove particles, but doesn?t go into the exact specifics for using it, and was hoping I could get some feedback from anyone out there who knows more.
>>  
>> Cheers,
>>  
>> Paul
>>  
>> Sent from Mail for Windows 10
>>  
>> _______________________________________________
>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
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From tenacity at fidnet.com  Sat Oct 13 11:28:16 2018
From: tenacity at fidnet.com (tenacity at fidnet.com)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2018 11:28:16 -0500 (CDT)
Subject: [Syrupmakers] =?utf-8?q?Diatomaceous_Earth=3F?=
In-Reply-To: <MWHPR22MB0926FA9AB7B8C3FED4EF047FCEE30@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.c
	om>
References: <MWHPR22MB092638034056CDCC80363024CEE10@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.c
	om>,
	<CAJRr7p3z9+=qSVL75t5kQw6sQnnk=FXv0P6_hRLsvqre4o++LA@mail.gmail.com> 
	<MWHPR22MB0926FA9AB7B8C3FED4EF047FCEE30@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outloo
	k.com>
Message-ID: <1539448096.216117731@webmail2.fidnet.com>


 Here in the midwest I have heard of using baking soda to bring the "debris" to the top quickly. I have not tried this myself. but understand it is used by some Amish regularly. Anyone tried using it? And in what quantity for what size pan? We have both a 100 gallon and a 30 gallon batch pan. Would love to hear any experiences.
 
Gail in Missouri
 
-----Original Message-----
From: "Paul Lefebvre" <paullefebvre at hotmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 10:20am
To: "A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers" <syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?




Thanks for the reply Keith,
 
    Here in Canada, pickling lime is banned as a food additive, so it?s nearly impossible to get.  ?
 
Paul
 
Sent from [  Mail ]( https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986 ) for Windows 10
 
From: Syrupmakers <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net> on behalf of Keith Evans <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 8:04:11 AM
To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
 

I've never used DE , but I use a pickeling lime at around 160? to help with separation. It causes a bigger foam (crust) for particles to get trapped in, therefore being able to remove those fine particles easier.


On Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 12:57 PM Paul Lefebvre <[ paullefebvre at hotmail.com ]( mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com )> wrote:


Hi All,
 
   I was wondering if anyone on this list uses Diatomaceous Earth in their production of syrup.  Maasdam Sorghum Mill briefly mentions the addition of Diatomaceous Earth in [  this ]( https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV6ztHccDy0 ) video at around 6:00 to help remove particles, but doesn?t go into the exact specifics for using it, and was hoping I could get some feedback from anyone out there who knows more.
 
Cheers,
 
Paul
 
Sent from [  Mail ]( https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986 ) for Windows 10
 _______________________________________________
 Syrupmakers mailing list
[ Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net ]( mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net )
[ http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net ]( http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net )
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From dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 11:50:15 2018
From: dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com (Keith Evans)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2018 11:50:15 -0500
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
In-Reply-To: <1539448096.216117731@webmail2.fidnet.com>
References: <CAJRr7p3z9+=qSVL75t5kQw6sQnnk=FXv0P6_hRLsvqre4o++LA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1539448096.216117731@webmail2.fidnet.com>
Message-ID: <CAJRr7p21nxjk9g+MF7Jd-55m9G=0p8c0_16uvkSdsA1n2bZePQ@mail.gmail.com>

I too have heard of the use of baking soda and water added to the juice to
make it rise in the kettle, if it falls. By "it" , I mean the juice when it
rises. Haven't heard of baking soda being used for separation. I'm in South
East Alabama.

On Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 11:44 AM tenacity at fidnet.com <tenacity at fidnet.com>
wrote:

>  Here in the midwest I have heard of using baking soda to bring the
> "debris" to the top quickly. I have not tried this myself. but understand
> it is used by some Amish regularly. Anyone tried using it? And in what
> quantity for what size pan? We have both a 100 gallon and a 30 gallon batch
> pan. Would love to hear any experiences.
>
>
>
> Gail in Missouri
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Paul Lefebvre" <paullefebvre at hotmail.com>
> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 10:20am
> To: "A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers" <syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> >
> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>
> Thanks for the reply Keith,
>
>
>
>     Here in Canada, pickling lime is banned as a food additive, so it?s
> nearly impossible to get.  ?
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
> Windows 10
>
>
> ------------------------------
> *From:* Syrupmakers <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net> on behalf of
> Keith Evans <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>
> *Sent:* Saturday, October 13, 2018 8:04:11 AM
> *To:* A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
> *Subject:* Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>
> I've never used DE , but I use a pickeling lime at around 160? to help
> with separation. It causes a bigger foam (crust) for particles to get
> trapped in, therefore being able to remove those fine particles easier.
>
> On Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 12:57 PM Paul Lefebvre <paullefebvre at hotmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Hi All,
>>
>>
>>
>>    I was wondering if anyone on this list uses Diatomaceous Earth in
>> their production of syrup.  Maasdam Sorghum Mill briefly mentions the
>> addition of Diatomaceous Earth in this
>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV6ztHccDy0> video at around 6:00 to
>> help remove particles, but doesn?t go into the exact specifics for using
>> it, and was hoping I could get some feedback from anyone out there who
>> knows more.
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows 10
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>
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From dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com  Sat Oct 13 11:54:03 2018
From: dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com (Keith Evans)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2018 11:54:03 -0500
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
In-Reply-To: <CAJRr7p21nxjk9g+MF7Jd-55m9G=0p8c0_16uvkSdsA1n2bZePQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJRr7p3z9+=qSVL75t5kQw6sQnnk=FXv0P6_hRLsvqre4o++LA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1539448096.216117731@webmail2.fidnet.com>
	<CAJRr7p21nxjk9g+MF7Jd-55m9G=0p8c0_16uvkSdsA1n2bZePQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <CAJRr7p3Yce13MUw0Uhpfg18=zBoLt8qELsRhPe=DhA23=kFQ-A@mail.gmail.com>

A tea spoon of baking soda per cup of water. Add slowly cause it will cause
the juice to rise fast and boil from the kettle. But as mentioned before, I
just heard of this being used to make the juice rise to cooking height.
Haven't heard about the separation with it though

On Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 11:50 AM Keith Evans <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com> wrote:

> I too have heard of the use of baking soda and water added to the juice to
> make it rise in the kettle, if it falls. By "it" , I mean the juice when it
> rises. Haven't heard of baking soda being used for separation. I'm in South
> East Alabama.
>
> On Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 11:44 AM tenacity at fidnet.com <tenacity at fidnet.com>
> wrote:
>
>>  Here in the midwest I have heard of using baking soda to bring the
>> "debris" to the top quickly. I have not tried this myself. but understand
>> it is used by some Amish regularly. Anyone tried using it? And in what
>> quantity for what size pan? We have both a 100 gallon and a 30 gallon batch
>> pan. Would love to hear any experiences.
>>
>>
>>
>> Gail in Missouri
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "Paul Lefebvre" <paullefebvre at hotmail.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 10:20am
>> To: "A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers" <
>> syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>
>> Thanks for the reply Keith,
>>
>>
>>
>>     Here in Canada, pickling lime is banned as a food additive, so it?s
>> nearly impossible to get.  ?
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows 10
>>
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> *From:* Syrupmakers <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net> on behalf of
>> Keith Evans <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>
>> *Sent:* Saturday, October 13, 2018 8:04:11 AM
>> *To:* A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
>> *Subject:* Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>
>> I've never used DE , but I use a pickeling lime at around 160? to help
>> with separation. It causes a bigger foam (crust) for particles to get
>> trapped in, therefore being able to remove those fine particles easier.
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 12:57 PM Paul Lefebvre <paullefebvre at hotmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>    I was wondering if anyone on this list uses Diatomaceous Earth in
>>> their production of syrup.  Maasdam Sorghum Mill briefly mentions the
>>> addition of Diatomaceous Earth in this
>>> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV6ztHccDy0> video at around 6:00 to
>>> help remove particles, but doesn?t go into the exact specifics for using
>>> it, and was hoping I could get some feedback from anyone out there who
>>> knows more.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>> Windows 10
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
>>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>>
>
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From paullefebvre at hotmail.com  Sat Oct 13 17:27:32 2018
From: paullefebvre at hotmail.com (Paul Lefebvre)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2018 22:27:32 +0000
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
In-Reply-To: <CAJRr7p21nxjk9g+MF7Jd-55m9G=0p8c0_16uvkSdsA1n2bZePQ@mail.gmail.com>
References: <CAJRr7p3z9+=qSVL75t5kQw6sQnnk=FXv0P6_hRLsvqre4o++LA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1539448096.216117731@webmail2.fidnet.com>,
	<CAJRr7p21nxjk9g+MF7Jd-55m9G=0p8c0_16uvkSdsA1n2bZePQ@mail.gmail.com>
Message-ID: <MWHPR22MB0926D5E2EF6C886730F58AB9CEE30@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>

Very interesting Gail!  I did a quick search, but couldn?t find any reference to using baking soda to help separation.  That doesn?t mean that your wrong though....anyone else have info on baking soda?

Keith: I?m not quite sure what you mean by the rising of the juice.  Could you expand?  If the addition of lime makes a thicker foam, which helps the separation process, then I would imagine that the baking soda addition might work in the same way, since baking soda does cause the boiling juice to foam.  How do you neutralize the alkalinity of the lime?

Does anyone else have any other secrets/techniques to help in separation?

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10


________________________________
From: Syrupmakers <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net> on behalf of Keith Evans <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 9:50:15 AM
To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?

I too have heard of the use of baking soda and water added to the juice to make it rise in the kettle, if it falls. By "it" , I mean the juice when it rises. Haven't heard of baking soda being used for separation. I'm in South East Alabama.

On Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 11:44 AM tenacity at fidnet.com<mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com> <tenacity at fidnet.com<mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com>> wrote:

 Here in the midwest I have heard of using baking soda to bring the "debris" to the top quickly. I have not tried this myself. but understand it is used by some Amish regularly. Anyone tried using it? And in what quantity for what size pan? We have both a 100 gallon and a 30 gallon batch pan. Would love to hear any experiences.



Gail in Missouri



-----Original Message-----
From: "Paul Lefebvre" <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>>
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 10:20am
To: "A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers" <syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>>
Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?

Thanks for the reply Keith,

    Here in Canada, pickling lime is banned as a food additive, so it?s nearly impossible to get.  ?

Paul

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

________________________________
From: Syrupmakers <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>> on behalf of Keith Evans <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com<mailto:dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>>
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 8:04:11 AM
To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?

I've never used DE , but I use a pickeling lime at around 160? to help with separation. It causes a bigger foam (crust) for particles to get trapped in, therefore being able to remove those fine particles easier.

On Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 12:57 PM Paul Lefebvre <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>> wrote:
Hi All,

   I was wondering if anyone on this list uses Diatomaceous Earth in their production of syrup.  Maasdam Sorghum Mill briefly mentions the addition of Diatomaceous Earth in this<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV6ztHccDy0> video at around 6:00 to help remove particles, but doesn?t go into the exact specifics for using it, and was hoping I could get some feedback from anyone out there who knows more.

Cheers,

Paul

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10

_______________________________________________
Syrupmakers mailing list
Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
_______________________________________________
Syrupmakers mailing list
Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
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From gjohn46 at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 13 18:22:12 2018
From: gjohn46 at yahoo.com (Glenn Johnson)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2018 23:22:12 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
In-Reply-To: <MWHPR22MB0926D5E2EF6C886730F58AB9CEE30@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAJRr7p3z9+=qSVL75t5kQw6sQnnk=FXv0P6_hRLsvqre4o++LA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1539448096.216117731@webmail2.fidnet.com>
	<CAJRr7p21nxjk9g+MF7Jd-55m9G=0p8c0_16uvkSdsA1n2bZePQ@mail.gmail.com>
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Message-ID: <308726227.9464741.1539472932863@mail.yahoo.com>

 Cane here in south Al. lying on ground after Micheal came by
    On Saturday, October 13, 2018, 5:27:53 PM CDT, Paul Lefebvre <paullefebvre at hotmail.com> wrote:  
 
 #yiv3505063336 #yiv3505063336 -- _filtered #yiv3505063336 {panose-1:2 4 5 3 5 4 6 3 2 4;} _filtered #yiv3505063336 {font-family:Calibri;panose-1:2 15 5 2 2 2 4 3 2 4;}#yiv3505063336 #yiv3505063336 p.yiv3505063336MsoNormal, #yiv3505063336 li.yiv3505063336MsoNormal, #yiv3505063336 div.yiv3505063336MsoNormal {margin:0cm;margin-bottom:.0001pt;font-size:11.0pt;font-family:sans-serif;}#yiv3505063336 a:link, #yiv3505063336 span.yiv3505063336MsoHyperlink {color:blue;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3505063336 a:visited, #yiv3505063336 span.yiv3505063336MsoHyperlinkFollowed {color:#954F72;text-decoration:underline;}#yiv3505063336 .yiv3505063336MsoChpDefault {} _filtered #yiv3505063336 {margin:72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt 72.0pt;}#yiv3505063336 div.yiv3505063336WordSection1 {}#yiv3505063336 
Very interesting Gail!? I did a quick search, but couldn?t find any reference to using baking soda to help separation.? That doesn?t mean that your wrong though....anyone else have info on baking soda??

 ?
 
Keith: I?m not quite sure what you mean by the rising of the juice.? Could you expand?? If the addition of lime makes a thicker foam, which helps the separation process, then I would imagine that the baking soda addition might work in the same way, since baking soda does cause the boiling juice to foam.? How do you neutralize the alkalinity of the lime?

 ?
 
Does anyone else have any other secrets/techniques to help in separation?? ??

 ?
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 ?
 
 ?
 From: Syrupmakers <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net> on behalf of Keith Evans <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 9:50:15 AM
To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth??I too have heard of the use of baking soda and water added to the juice to make it rise in the kettle, if it falls. By "it" , I mean the juice when it rises. Haven't heard of baking soda being used for separation. I'm in South East Alabama.
On Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 11:44 AM tenacity at fidnet.com <tenacity at fidnet.com> wrote:


?Here in the midwest I have heard of using baking soda to bring the "debris" to the top quickly. I have not tried this myself. but understand it is used by some Amish regularly. Anyone tried using it? And in what quantity for what size pan? We have both a 100 gallon and a 30 gallon batch pan. Would love to hear any experiences.

?

Gail in Missouri

?

-----Original Message-----
From: "Paul Lefebvre" <paullefebvre at hotmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 10:20am
To: "A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers" <syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?



Thanks for the reply Keith,

?

??? Here in Canada, pickling lime is banned as a food additive, so it?s nearly impossible to get.??

?

Paul

?

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

?
From: Syrupmakers <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net> on behalf of Keith Evans <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 8:04:11 AM
To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth??I've never used DE , but I use a pickeling lime at around 160? to help with separation. It causes a bigger foam (crust) for particles to get trapped in, therefore being able to remove those fine particles easier.
On Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 12:57 PM Paul Lefebvre <paullefebvre at hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi All,

?

?? I was wondering if anyone on this list uses Diatomaceous Earth in their production of syrup.? Maasdam Sorghum Mill briefly mentions the addition of Diatomaceous Earth inthis video at around 6:00 to help remove particles, but doesn?t go into the exact specifics for using it, and was hoping I could get some feedback from anyone out there who knows more.

?

Cheers,

?

Paul

?

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

?
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http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
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http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net

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From scott at eldercomputersolutions.com  Sat Oct 13 19:02:37 2018
From: scott at eldercomputersolutions.com (Scott)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 00:02:37 +0000
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
In-Reply-To: <308726227.9464741.1539472932863@mail.yahoo.com>
References: <CAJRr7p3z9+=qSVL75t5kQw6sQnnk=FXv0P6_hRLsvqre4o++LA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1539448096.216117731@webmail2.fidnet.com>
	<CAJRr7p21nxjk9g+MF7Jd-55m9G=0p8c0_16uvkSdsA1n2bZePQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<MWHPR22MB0926D5E2EF6C886730F58AB9CEE30@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>,
	<308726227.9464741.1539472932863@mail.yahoo.com>
Message-ID: <0BCC1CBE-12F9-4E91-9419-9B455CF45773@eldercomputersolutions.com>

After stripping and cutting the cane I lean it up against ?clothes lines? for about 5 to 8 days. It seems to help with starch and seems to help it cook clean.


If only I could keep the aphids from destroying my crop.

Scott

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 13, 2018, at 7:22 PM, Glenn Johnson <gjohn46 at yahoo.com<mailto:gjohn46 at yahoo.com>> wrote:

Cane here in south Al. lying on ground after Micheal came by

On Saturday, October 13, 2018, 5:27:53 PM CDT, Paul Lefebvre <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>> wrote:



Very interesting Gail!  I did a quick search, but couldn?t find any reference to using baking soda to help separation.  That doesn?t mean that your wrong though....anyone else have info on baking soda?



Keith: I?m not quite sure what you mean by the rising of the juice.  Could you expand?  If the addition of lime makes a thicker foam, which helps the separation process, then I would imagine that the baking soda addition might work in the same way, since baking soda does cause the boiling juice to foam.  How do you neutralize the alkalinity of the lime?



Does anyone else have any other secrets/techniques to help in separation?



Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10





________________________________
From: Syrupmakers <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>> on behalf of Keith Evans <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com<mailto:dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>>
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 9:50:15 AM
To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?

I too have heard of the use of baking soda and water added to the juice to make it rise in the kettle, if it falls. By "it" , I mean the juice when it rises. Haven't heard of baking soda being used for separation. I'm in South East Alabama.

On Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 11:44 AM tenacity at fidnet.com<mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com> <tenacity at fidnet.com<mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com>> wrote:

 Here in the midwest I have heard of using baking soda to bring the "debris" to the top quickly. I have not tried this myself. but understand it is used by some Amish regularly. Anyone tried using it? And in what quantity for what size pan? We have both a 100 gallon and a 30 gallon batch pan. Would love to hear any experiences.



Gail in Missouri



-----Original Message-----
From: "Paul Lefebvre" <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>>
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 10:20am
To: "A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers" <syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>>
Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?


Thanks for the reply Keith,



    Here in Canada, pickling lime is banned as a food additive, so it?s nearly impossible to get.  ?



Paul



Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10



________________________________
From: Syrupmakers <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>> on behalf of Keith Evans <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com<mailto:dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>>
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 8:04:11 AM
To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?

I've never used DE , but I use a pickeling lime at around 160? to help with separation. It causes a bigger foam (crust) for particles to get trapped in, therefore being able to remove those fine particles easier.

On Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 12:57 PM Paul Lefebvre <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>> wrote:

Hi All,



   I was wondering if anyone on this list uses Diatomaceous Earth in their production of syrup.  Maasdam Sorghum Mill briefly mentions the addition of Diatomaceous Earth in this<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV6ztHccDy0> video at around 6:00 to help remove particles, but doesn?t go into the exact specifics for using it, and was hoping I could get some feedback from anyone out there who knows more.



Cheers,



Paul



Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10



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From weraisecane at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 13 19:16:46 2018
From: weraisecane at yahoo.com (tom clayton)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 00:16:46 +0000 (UTC)
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
In-Reply-To: <MWHPR22MB0926D5E2EF6C886730F58AB9CEE30@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAJRr7p3z9+=qSVL75t5kQw6sQnnk=FXv0P6_hRLsvqre4o++LA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1539448096.216117731@webmail2.fidnet.com>
	<CAJRr7p21nxjk9g+MF7Jd-55m9G=0p8c0_16uvkSdsA1n2bZePQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<MWHPR22MB0926D5E2EF6C886730F58AB9CEE30@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <1091139553.9462939.1539476206776@mail.yahoo.com>

 I used baking soda back when we cooked with wood when we would have problems bringing the juice up the to clean. Never mixed mine with water but just need a small pinch to bring the skimming up real fast if your afraid you might cook them back into the juice. drop a small amount into the boiling juice and get on your horse because you will be skimming wide open to keep up the the nasty. Be carefull not to put in too much or it will roll out of the kettle. We had to use it most often when we cooked with the Japaneese cane. Always hard to clean up.My family would use the Diatomaceuos Earth when making sugar. They used a Jamaican train with 3 kettles and only D E in the Grande (first kettle). Seems like uncle Carl would get it from family up in Two Egg Florida. Makes me think it may have been available around their area. Nothing like that here in N E Florida that i know of. Tommy . Florida Sugarcane.    On Saturday, October 13, 2018, 6:27:53 PM EDT, Paul Lefebvre <paullefebvre at hotmail.com> wrote:  
 
 
Very interesting Gail!? I did a quick search, but couldn?t find any reference to using baking soda to help separation.? That doesn?t mean that your wrong though....anyone else have info on baking soda??

 ?
 
Keith: I?m not quite sure what you mean by the rising of the juice.? Could you expand?? If the addition of lime makes a thicker foam, which helps the separation process, then I would imagine that the baking soda addition might work in the same way, since baking soda does cause the boiling juice to foam.? How do you neutralize the alkalinity of the lime?

 ?
 
Does anyone else have any other secrets/techniques to help in separation?? ??

 ?
 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

 ?
 
 ?
 From: Syrupmakers <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net> on behalf of Keith Evans <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 9:50:15 AM
To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth??I too have heard of the use of baking soda and water added to the juice to make it rise in the kettle, if it falls. By "it" , I mean the juice when it rises. Haven't heard of baking soda being used for separation. I'm in South East Alabama.
On Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 11:44 AM tenacity at fidnet.com <tenacity at fidnet.com> wrote:


?Here in the midwest I have heard of using baking soda to bring the "debris" to the top quickly. I have not tried this myself. but understand it is used by some Amish regularly. Anyone tried using it? And in what quantity for what size pan? We have both a 100 gallon and a 30 gallon batch pan. Would love to hear any experiences.

?

Gail in Missouri

?

-----Original Message-----
From: "Paul Lefebvre" <paullefebvre at hotmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 10:20am
To: "A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers" <syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?



Thanks for the reply Keith,

?

??? Here in Canada, pickling lime is banned as a food additive, so it?s nearly impossible to get.??

?

Paul

?

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

?
From: Syrupmakers <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net> on behalf of Keith Evans <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 8:04:11 AM
To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth??I've never used DE , but I use a pickeling lime at around 160? to help with separation. It causes a bigger foam (crust) for particles to get trapped in, therefore being able to remove those fine particles easier.
On Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 12:57 PM Paul Lefebvre <paullefebvre at hotmail.com> wrote:

Hi All,

?

?? I was wondering if anyone on this list uses Diatomaceous Earth in their production of syrup.? Maasdam Sorghum Mill briefly mentions the addition of Diatomaceous Earth inthis video at around 6:00 to help remove particles, but doesn?t go into the exact specifics for using it, and was hoping I could get some feedback from anyone out there who knows more.

?

Cheers,

?

Paul

?

Sent from Mail for Windows 10

?
_______________________________________________
Syrupmakers mailing list
Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
_______________________________________________
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Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net

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From ieck at ckt.net  Sat Oct 13 23:15:03 2018
From: ieck at ckt.net (ieck at ckt.net)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2018 23:15:03 -0500
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
In-Reply-To: <MWHPR22MB0926D5E2EF6C886730F58AB9CEE30@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAJRr7p3z9+=qSVL75t5kQw6sQnnk=FXv0P6_hRLsvqre4o++LA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1539448096.216117731@webmail2.fidnet.com>,
	<CAJRr7p21nxjk9g+MF7Jd-55m9G=0p8c0_16uvkSdsA1n2bZePQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<MWHPR22MB0926D5E2EF6C886730F58AB9CEE30@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <4ca85d10919db051ca6e547017ab49dc.squirrel@roland.ckt.net>


Hello Paul,
 I have not read how others have responded to your question so if I am
repeating please forgive.
 We have used literally tons of diatomaceous earth and it should be viewed
as simply a filtering aid. In short, we would  preheat and pre-skim 1200
gallons of juice.  Just after this skimming process was done, we would
thoroughly mix 50 pounds of diatomite and keep it suspended in the juice
while we were pumping it through a pressure leaf filter.  This filtering
process left very little skimming to do on our evaporator pans.
 Toward the end of our sorghum making career, we were using a thin film
evaporation process coupled with finishing the product under 21 inches of
vacuum.
 You will find that the better you clean your juice and the faster you can
get it to 80 brix and then cooled to  160? or less, the lighter your
sorghum will be.  The longer your syrup stays at a temperature over 160?
the more it will caramelize. This caramelization will add color and
stronger flavors. This is why we used ?thin film? and vacuum in our
process.
  I would caution against the use of any base or acid additives.  If your
green juice becomes acidic it will produce a lighter syrup but not
always a desirable flavor. If you add some form of alkaline, you will
find that it will actually produce a darker syrup.

Pleasant regards,
Ivan

 Very interesting Gail!  I did a quick search, but couldn???t find any
> reference to using baking soda to help separation.  That doesn???t mean
> that your wrong though....anyone else have info on baking soda?
>
> Keith: I???m not quite sure what you mean by the rising of the juice.
> Could you expand?  If the addition of lime makes a thicker foam, which
> helps the separation process, then I would imagine that the baking soda
> addition might work in the same way, since baking soda does cause the
> boiling juice to foam.  How do you neutralize the alkalinity of the lime?
>
> Does anyone else have any other secrets/techniques to help in separation?
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
> 10
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Syrupmakers <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net> on behalf of Keith
> Evans <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>
> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 9:50:15 AM
> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>
> I too have heard of the use of baking soda and water added to the juice to
> make it rise in the kettle, if it falls. By "it" , I mean the juice when
> it rises. Haven't heard of baking soda being used for separation. I'm in
> South East Alabama.
>
> On Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 11:44 AM
> tenacity at fidnet.com<mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com>
> <tenacity at fidnet.com<mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com>> wrote:
>
>  Here in the midwest I have heard of using baking soda to bring the
> "debris" to the top quickly. I have not tried this myself. but understand
> it is used by some Amish regularly. Anyone tried using it? And in what
> quantity for what size pan? We have both a 100 gallon and a 30 gallon
> batch pan. Would love to hear any experiences.
>
>
>
> Gail in Missouri
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Paul Lefebvre"
> <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>>
> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 10:20am
> To: "A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers"
> <syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>>
> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>
> Thanks for the reply Keith,
>
>     Here in Canada, pickling lime is banned as a food additive, so it???s
> nearly impossible to get.  ???
>
> Paul
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
> 10
>
> ________________________________
> From: Syrupmakers
> <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>>
> on behalf of Keith Evans
> <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com<mailto:dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>>
> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 8:04:11 AM
> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>
> I've never used DE , but I use a pickeling lime at around 160?? to help
> with separation. It causes a bigger foam (crust) for particles to get
> trapped in, therefore being able to remove those fine particles easier.
>
> On Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 12:57 PM Paul Lefebvre
> <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
>    I was wondering if anyone on this list uses Diatomaceous Earth in their
> production of syrup.  Maasdam Sorghum Mill briefly mentions the
> addition of Diatomaceous Earth in
> this<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV6ztHccDy0> video at around 6:00
> to help remove particles, but doesn???t go into the exact specifics for
> using it, and was hoping I could get some feedback from anyone out
> there who knows more.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Paul
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
> 10
>
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>




From ieck at ckt.net  Sat Oct 13 23:28:11 2018
From: ieck at ckt.net (ieck at ckt.net)
Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2018 23:28:11 -0500
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
In-Reply-To: <0BCC1CBE-12F9-4E91-9419-9B455CF45773@eldercomputersolutions.com>
References: <CAJRr7p3z9+=qSVL75t5kQw6sQnnk=FXv0P6_hRLsvqre4o++LA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1539448096.216117731@webmail2.fidnet.com>
	<CAJRr7p21nxjk9g+MF7Jd-55m9G=0p8c0_16uvkSdsA1n2bZePQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<MWHPR22MB0926D5E2EF6C886730F58AB9CEE30@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>,
	<308726227.9464741.1539472932863@mail.yahoo.com>
	<0BCC1CBE-12F9-4E91-9419-9B455CF45773@eldercomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <5821a0595f27f0d80de3392994b279bf.squirrel@roland.ckt.net>

Hi Scott,
 Other added benefits to ?aging? your cane for a week is the natural
dehydration that occurs along with the natural enzymes which help to
break down sucrose into simple sugars.  This enzymatic action helps to
balance sugars thus inhibiting crystallization.
 I used to like doing that also.

 Happy cook?n,
Ivan


> After stripping and cutting the cane I lean it up against ???clothes
> lines??? for about 5 to 8 days. It seems to help with starch and seems to
> help it cook clean.
>
>
> If only I could keep the aphids from destroying my crop.
>
> Scott
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 13, 2018, at 7:22 PM, Glenn Johnson
> <gjohn46 at yahoo.com<mailto:gjohn46 at yahoo.com>> wrote:
>
> Cane here in south Al. lying on ground after Micheal came by
>
> On Saturday, October 13, 2018, 5:27:53 PM CDT, Paul Lefebvre
> <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
>
> Very interesting Gail!  I did a quick search, but couldn???t find any
> reference to using baking soda to help separation.  That doesn???t mean
> that your wrong though....anyone else have info on baking soda?
>
>
>
> Keith: I???m not quite sure what you mean by the rising of the juice.
> Could you expand?  If the addition of lime makes a thicker foam, which
> helps the separation process, then I would imagine that the baking soda
> addition might work in the same way, since baking soda does cause the
> boiling juice to foam.  How do you neutralize the alkalinity of the lime?
>
>
>
> Does anyone else have any other secrets/techniques to help in separation?
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
> 10
>
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Syrupmakers
> <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>>
> on behalf of Keith Evans
> <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com<mailto:dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>>
> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 9:50:15 AM
> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>
> I too have heard of the use of baking soda and water added to the juice to
> make it rise in the kettle, if it falls. By "it" , I mean the juice when
> it rises. Haven't heard of baking soda being used for separation. I'm in
> South East Alabama.
>
> On Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 11:44 AM
> tenacity at fidnet.com<mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com>
> <tenacity at fidnet.com<mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com>> wrote:
>
>  Here in the midwest I have heard of using baking soda to bring the
> "debris" to the top quickly. I have not tried this myself. but understand
> it is used by some Amish regularly. Anyone tried using it? And in what
> quantity for what size pan? We have both a 100 gallon and a 30 gallon
> batch pan. Would love to hear any experiences.
>
>
>
> Gail in Missouri
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Paul Lefebvre"
> <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>>
> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 10:20am
> To: "A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers"
> <syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>>
> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>
>
> Thanks for the reply Keith,
>
>
>
>     Here in Canada, pickling lime is banned as a food additive, so it???s
> nearly impossible to get.  ???
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
> 10
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Syrupmakers
> <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>>
> on behalf of Keith Evans
> <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com<mailto:dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>>
> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 8:04:11 AM
> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>
> I've never used DE , but I use a pickeling lime at around 160?? to help
> with separation. It causes a bigger foam (crust) for particles to get
> trapped in, therefore being able to remove those fine particles easier.
>
> On Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 12:57 PM Paul Lefebvre
> <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
> Hi All,
>
>
>
>    I was wondering if anyone on this list uses Diatomaceous Earth in their
> production of syrup.  Maasdam Sorghum Mill briefly mentions the
> addition of Diatomaceous Earth in
> this<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV6ztHccDy0> video at around 6:00
> to help remove particles, but doesn???t go into the exact specifics for
> using it, and was hoping I could get some feedback from anyone out
> there who knows more.
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
> 10
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>




From paullefebvre at hotmail.com  Sun Oct 14 09:39:04 2018
From: paullefebvre at hotmail.com (Paul Lefebvre)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 14:39:04 +0000
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
In-Reply-To: <4ca85d10919db051ca6e547017ab49dc.squirrel@roland.ckt.net>
References: <CAJRr7p3z9+=qSVL75t5kQw6sQnnk=FXv0P6_hRLsvqre4o++LA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1539448096.216117731@webmail2.fidnet.com>,
	<CAJRr7p21nxjk9g+MF7Jd-55m9G=0p8c0_16uvkSdsA1n2bZePQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<MWHPR22MB0926D5E2EF6C886730F58AB9CEE30@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>,
	<4ca85d10919db051ca6e547017ab49dc.squirrel@roland.ckt.net>
Message-ID: <MWHPR22MB09268C38AEF98F5C0C09FB68CEFC0@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>

Hi Ivan,



  Thank you very much for such a detailed and well written reply regarding the DE, and suggesting vacuum evaporation.  I haven?t heard of thin film evaporation, so I have some reading to do now!  Sounds like you had quite a sophisticated operation.



As far as letting the cut stalks ?rest? before pressing ? how common is this practice?  I?ve heard of people doing it before, but am sure I?ve read papers in the past that found this practice reduced sugar levels due to bacteria, which lead me to believe it wasn?t the best practice.



Paul





Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10



________________________________
From: Syrupmakers <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net> on behalf of ieck at ckt.net <ieck at ckt.net>
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 9:15:03 PM
To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?


Hello Paul,
 I have not read how others have responded to your question so if I am
repeating please forgive.
 We have used literally tons of diatomaceous earth and it should be viewed
as simply a filtering aid. In short, we would  preheat and pre-skim 1200
gallons of juice.  Just after this skimming process was done, we would
thoroughly mix 50 pounds of diatomite and keep it suspended in the juice
while we were pumping it through a pressure leaf filter.  This filtering
process left very little skimming to do on our evaporator pans.
 Toward the end of our sorghum making career, we were using a thin film
evaporation process coupled with finishing the product under 21 inches of
vacuum.
 You will find that the better you clean your juice and the faster you can
get it to 80 brix and then cooled to  160? or less, the lighter your
sorghum will be.  The longer your syrup stays at a temperature over 160?
the more it will caramelize. This caramelization will add color and
stronger flavors. This is why we used ?thin film? and vacuum in our
process.
  I would caution against the use of any base or acid additives.  If your
green juice becomes acidic it will produce a lighter syrup but not
always a desirable flavor. If you add some form of alkaline, you will
find that it will actually produce a darker syrup.

Pleasant regards,
Ivan

 Very interesting Gail!  I did a quick search, but couldn???t find any
> reference to using baking soda to help separation.  That doesn???t mean
> that your wrong though....anyone else have info on baking soda?
>
> Keith: I???m not quite sure what you mean by the rising of the juice.
> Could you expand?  If the addition of lime makes a thicker foam, which
> helps the separation process, then I would imagine that the baking soda
> addition might work in the same way, since baking soda does cause the
> boiling juice to foam.  How do you neutralize the alkalinity of the lime?
>
> Does anyone else have any other secrets/techniques to help in separation?
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
> 10
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Syrupmakers <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net> on behalf of Keith
> Evans <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>
> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 9:50:15 AM
> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>
> I too have heard of the use of baking soda and water added to the juice to
> make it rise in the kettle, if it falls. By "it" , I mean the juice when
> it rises. Haven't heard of baking soda being used for separation. I'm in
> South East Alabama.
>
> On Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 11:44 AM
> tenacity at fidnet.com<mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com>
> <tenacity at fidnet.com<mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com>> wrote:
>
>  Here in the midwest I have heard of using baking soda to bring the
> "debris" to the top quickly. I have not tried this myself. but understand
> it is used by some Amish regularly. Anyone tried using it? And in what
> quantity for what size pan? We have both a 100 gallon and a 30 gallon
> batch pan. Would love to hear any experiences.
>
>
>
> Gail in Missouri
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Paul Lefebvre"
> <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>>
> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 10:20am
> To: "A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers"
> <syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>>
> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>
> Thanks for the reply Keith,
>
>     Here in Canada, pickling lime is banned as a food additive, so it???s
> nearly impossible to get.  ???
>
> Paul
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
> 10
>
> ________________________________
> From: Syrupmakers
> <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>>
> on behalf of Keith Evans
> <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com<mailto:dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>>
> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 8:04:11 AM
> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>
> I've never used DE , but I use a pickeling lime at around 160?? to help
> with separation. It causes a bigger foam (crust) for particles to get
> trapped in, therefore being able to remove those fine particles easier.
>
> On Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 12:57 PM Paul Lefebvre
> <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
>    I was wondering if anyone on this list uses Diatomaceous Earth in their
> production of syrup.  Maasdam Sorghum Mill briefly mentions the
> addition of Diatomaceous Earth in
> this<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV6ztHccDy0> video at around 6:00
> to help remove particles, but doesn???t go into the exact specifics for
> using it, and was hoping I could get some feedback from anyone out
> there who knows more.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Paul
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
> 10
>
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>



_______________________________________________
Syrupmakers mailing list
Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
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From scott at eldercomputersolutions.com  Sun Oct 14 09:45:15 2018
From: scott at eldercomputersolutions.com (Scott)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 14:45:15 +0000
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
In-Reply-To: <MWHPR22MB09268C38AEF98F5C0C09FB68CEFC0@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAJRr7p3z9+=qSVL75t5kQw6sQnnk=FXv0P6_hRLsvqre4o++LA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1539448096.216117731@webmail2.fidnet.com>,
	<CAJRr7p21nxjk9g+MF7Jd-55m9G=0p8c0_16uvkSdsA1n2bZePQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<MWHPR22MB0926D5E2EF6C886730F58AB9CEE30@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>,
	<4ca85d10919db051ca6e547017ab49dc.squirrel@roland.ckt.net>,
	<MWHPR22MB09268C38AEF98F5C0C09FB68CEFC0@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <7343EA90-3524-44A2-9FBC-2D4C8DAF9A93@eldercomputersolutions.com>

It was taught to me from someone who did syrup for 70 years. It is only common amount small growers because of labor intensity.

Scott

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 14, 2018, at 10:39 AM, Paul Lefebvre <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>> wrote:


Hi Ivan,



  Thank you very much for such a detailed and well written reply regarding the DE, and suggesting vacuum evaporation.  I haven?t heard of thin film evaporation, so I have some reading to do now!  Sounds like you had quite a sophisticated operation.



As far as letting the cut stalks ?rest? before pressing ? how common is this practice?  I?ve heard of people doing it before, but am sure I?ve read papers in the past that found this practice reduced sugar levels due to bacteria, which lead me to believe it wasn?t the best practice.



Paul





Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10



________________________________
From: Syrupmakers <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>> on behalf of ieck at ckt.net<mailto:ieck at ckt.net> <ieck at ckt.net<mailto:ieck at ckt.net>>
Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 9:15:03 PM
To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?


Hello Paul,
 I have not read how others have responded to your question so if I am
repeating please forgive.
 We have used literally tons of diatomaceous earth and it should be viewed
as simply a filtering aid. In short, we would  preheat and pre-skim 1200
gallons of juice.  Just after this skimming process was done, we would
thoroughly mix 50 pounds of diatomite and keep it suspended in the juice
while we were pumping it through a pressure leaf filter.  This filtering
process left very little skimming to do on our evaporator pans.
 Toward the end of our sorghum making career, we were using a thin film
evaporation process coupled with finishing the product under 21 inches of
vacuum.
 You will find that the better you clean your juice and the faster you can
get it to 80 brix and then cooled to  160? or less, the lighter your
sorghum will be.  The longer your syrup stays at a temperature over 160?
the more it will caramelize. This caramelization will add color and
stronger flavors. This is why we used ?thin film? and vacuum in our
process.
  I would caution against the use of any base or acid additives.  If your
green juice becomes acidic it will produce a lighter syrup but not
always a desirable flavor. If you add some form of alkaline, you will
find that it will actually produce a darker syrup.

Pleasant regards,
Ivan

 Very interesting Gail!  I did a quick search, but couldn???t find any
> reference to using baking soda to help separation.  That doesn???t mean
> that your wrong though....anyone else have info on baking soda?
>
> Keith: I???m not quite sure what you mean by the rising of the juice.
> Could you expand?  If the addition of lime makes a thicker foam, which
> helps the separation process, then I would imagine that the baking soda
> addition might work in the same way, since baking soda does cause the
> boiling juice to foam.  How do you neutralize the alkalinity of the lime?
>
> Does anyone else have any other secrets/techniques to help in separation?
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
> 10
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Syrupmakers <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>> on behalf of Keith
> Evans <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com<mailto:dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>>
> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 9:50:15 AM
> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>
> I too have heard of the use of baking soda and water added to the juice to
> make it rise in the kettle, if it falls. By "it" , I mean the juice when
> it rises. Haven't heard of baking soda being used for separation. I'm in
> South East Alabama.
>
> On Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 11:44 AM
> tenacity at fidnet.com<mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com><mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com>
> <tenacity at fidnet.com<mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com><mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com>> wrote:
>
>  Here in the midwest I have heard of using baking soda to bring the
> "debris" to the top quickly. I have not tried this myself. but understand
> it is used by some Amish regularly. Anyone tried using it? And in what
> quantity for what size pan? We have both a 100 gallon and a 30 gallon
> batch pan. Would love to hear any experiences.
>
>
>
> Gail in Missouri
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: "Paul Lefebvre"
> <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com><mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>>
> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 10:20am
> To: "A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers"
> <syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net><mailto:syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>>
> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>
> Thanks for the reply Keith,
>
>     Here in Canada, pickling lime is banned as a food additive, so it???s
> nearly impossible to get.  ???
>
> Paul
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
> 10
>
> ________________________________
> From: Syrupmakers
> <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net><mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>>
> on behalf of Keith Evans
> <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com<mailto:dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com><mailto:dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>>
> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 8:04:11 AM
> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>
> I've never used DE , but I use a pickeling lime at around 160?? to help
> with separation. It causes a bigger foam (crust) for particles to get
> trapped in, therefore being able to remove those fine particles easier.
>
> On Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 12:57 PM Paul Lefebvre
> <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com><mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>> wrote:
> Hi All,
>
>    I was wondering if anyone on this list uses Diatomaceous Earth in their
> production of syrup.  Maasdam Sorghum Mill briefly mentions the
> addition of Diatomaceous Earth in
> this<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV6ztHccDy0> video at around 6:00
> to help remove particles, but doesn???t go into the exact specifics for
> using it, and was hoping I could get some feedback from anyone out
> there who knows more.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Paul
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
> 10
>
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net><mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net><mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>



_______________________________________________
Syrupmakers mailing list
Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
_______________________________________________
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From sbgfarms at excite.com  Sun Oct 14 14:22:05 2018
From: sbgfarms at excite.com (ROB)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 15:22:05 -0400
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Syrupmakers Digest, Vol 44, Issue 9
Message-ID: <20181014152205.28247@web007.roc2.bluetie.com>

I have used baking soda, and fresh cows milk to help separate the skimmings from the juice. ?I usually let the cane sit 5 days after cutting, this seems to reduce skimmings dramatically, then I settle the juice overnight which takes out a lot as well, then when ?cooking, if the skimmings do not come up like I want them to, a little baking soda gets them to coming up good. ?Milk works really well as the syrup is nearing finishing, but has not come as clean of skimmings as you would like. ?Milk and Baking Soda mixed works good as well. ? Lime would work ever bit as good. ?It serves the same purpose as the baking soda. ?It is commonly used in sugar production.
R. Wurth
?
?
?
-----Original Message-----
From: "" [syrupmakers-request at syrupmakers.net]
Date: 10/14/2018 10:39 AM
To: syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
Subject: Syrupmakers Digest, Vol 44, Issue 9

Note: Original message sent as attachment
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From ieck at ckt.net  Sun Oct 14 18:49:20 2018
From: ieck at ckt.net (ieck at ckt.net)
Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2018 18:49:20 -0500
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
In-Reply-To: <MWHPR22MB09268C38AEF98F5C0C09FB68CEFC0@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAJRr7p3z9+=qSVL75t5kQw6sQnnk=FXv0P6_hRLsvqre4o++LA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1539448096.216117731@webmail2.fidnet.com>,
	<CAJRr7p21nxjk9g+MF7Jd-55m9G=0p8c0_16uvkSdsA1n2bZePQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<MWHPR22MB0926D5E2EF6C886730F58AB9CEE30@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>,
	<4ca85d10919db051ca6e547017ab49dc.squirrel@roland.ckt.net>
	<MWHPR22MB09268C38AEF98F5C0C09FB68CEFC0@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <f1deddc175a89bafd9bb35c0bd0dd1dc.squirrel@roland.ckt.net>

Paul,
 In  regard to production loss from bacteria, there are a number of
factors which need to be considered. Does the cane already have red rot
problems? Does the cane have multiple cracks or is freeze damage present?
 Just remember that anytime a stalk?s rind is breached, that is an entry
point for bacteria.  Bacteria loves carbohydrates.
 It was our experience, back in the 70s, that healthy cane could be stored
7 to 10 days with little problems.  I would not recommend storing in to
tight a stack or in a high moisture environment.

 A moderate amount of bacteria actually lowers the pH which normally
results in a lighter syrup.

 We used a rising film evaporator. This was basically a vertical shell and
tube heat exchanger with steam around the outside of the tubes. The juice
was pumped at a specific rate up through the tubes.  This, coupled with
our vacuum cooker, greatly reduced the amount of time the syrup resided
at temperatures above 160?.

 There were also times we would use a centrifuge, toward the end of the
cooking process, to clarify the syrup.

 We had a lot of fun. There are times that I almost wish we were back
make?n sorghum again.

Ivan




 Hi Ivan,
>
>
>
>   Thank you very much for such a detailed and well written reply regarding
> the DE, and suggesting vacuum evaporation.  I haven?t heard of thin film
> evaporation, so I have some reading to do now!  Sounds like you had
> quite a sophisticated operation.
>
>
>
> As far as letting the cut stalks ?rest? before pressing ? how common is
> this practice?  I?ve heard of people doing it before, but am sure I?ve
> read papers in the past that found this practice reduced sugar levels due
> to bacteria, which lead me to believe it wasn?t the best practice.
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
> 10
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Syrupmakers <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net> on behalf of
> ieck at ckt.net <ieck at ckt.net>
> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 9:15:03 PM
> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>
>
> Hello Paul,
>  I have not read how others have responded to your question so if I am
> repeating please forgive.
>  We have used literally tons of diatomaceous earth and it should be viewed
> as simply a filtering aid. In short, we would  preheat and pre-skim 1200
> gallons of juice.  Just after this skimming process was done, we would
> thoroughly mix 50 pounds of diatomite and keep it suspended in the juice
> while we were pumping it through a pressure leaf filter.  This filtering
> process left very little skimming to do on our evaporator pans.
>  Toward the end of our sorghum making career, we were using a thin film
> evaporation process coupled with finishing the product under 21 inches of
> vacuum.
>  You will find that the better you clean your juice and the faster you can
> get it to 80 brix and then cooled to  160? or less, the lighter your
> sorghum will be.  The longer your syrup stays at a temperature over 160?
> the more it will caramelize. This caramelization will add color and
> stronger flavors. This is why we used ?thin film? and vacuum in our
> process.
>   I would caution against the use of any base or acid additives.  If your
> green juice becomes acidic it will produce a lighter syrup but not
> always a desirable flavor. If you add some form of alkaline, you will
> find that it will actually produce a darker syrup.
>
> Pleasant regards,
> Ivan
>
>  Very interesting Gail!  I did a quick search, but couldn???t find any
>> reference to using baking soda to help separation.  That doesn???t mean
>> that your wrong though....anyone else have info on baking soda?
>>
>> Keith: I???m not quite sure what you mean by the rising of the juice.
>> Could you expand?  If the addition of lime makes a thicker foam, which
>> helps the separation process, then I would imagine that the baking soda
>> addition might work in the same way, since baking soda does cause the
>> boiling juice to foam.  How do you neutralize the alkalinity of the
>> lime?
>>
>> Does anyone else have any other secrets/techniques to help in
>> separation?
>>
>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows
>> 10
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Syrupmakers <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net> on behalf of
>> Keith
>> Evans <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 9:50:15 AM
>> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>
>> I too have heard of the use of baking soda and water added to the juice
>> to
>> make it rise in the kettle, if it falls. By "it" , I mean the juice when
>> it rises. Haven't heard of baking soda being used for separation. I'm in
>> South East Alabama.
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 11:44 AM
>> tenacity at fidnet.com<mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com>
>> <tenacity at fidnet.com<mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com>> wrote:
>>
>>  Here in the midwest I have heard of using baking soda to bring the
>> "debris" to the top quickly. I have not tried this myself. but
>> understand
>> it is used by some Amish regularly. Anyone tried using it? And in what
>> quantity for what size pan? We have both a 100 gallon and a 30 gallon
>> batch pan. Would love to hear any experiences.
>>
>>
>>
>> Gail in Missouri
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "Paul Lefebvre"
>> <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>>
>> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 10:20am
>> To: "A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers"
>> <syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>>
>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>
>> Thanks for the reply Keith,
>>
>>     Here in Canada, pickling lime is banned as a food additive, so
>> it???s
>> nearly impossible to get.  ???
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows
>> 10
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Syrupmakers
>> <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>>
>> on behalf of Keith Evans
>> <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com<mailto:dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>>
>> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 8:04:11 AM
>> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>
>> I've never used DE , but I use a pickeling lime at around 160?? to help
>> with separation. It causes a bigger foam (crust) for particles to get
>> trapped in, therefore being able to remove those fine particles easier.
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 12:57 PM Paul Lefebvre
>> <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>>    I was wondering if anyone on this list uses Diatomaceous Earth in
>> their
>> production of syrup.  Maasdam Sorghum Mill briefly mentions the
>> addition of Diatomaceous Earth in
>> this<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV6ztHccDy0> video at around 6:00
>> to help remove particles, but doesn???t go into the exact specifics for
>> using it, and was hoping I could get some feedback from anyone out
>> there who knows more.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows
>> 10
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>> _______________________________________________
>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>> _______________________________________________
>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>




From chulmark at gmail.com  Mon Oct 15 15:09:47 2018
From: chulmark at gmail.com (Mark Chuljian)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 15:09:47 -0500
Subject: [Syrupmakers] temperature of finished sorghum
Message-ID: <EECAB859-8042-4AE4-B914-3FA40D12F741@gmail.com>

Can someone tell us what the temperature of the sorghum needs to get to so it will not spoil?  We recently got a refractometer which seems to be very helpful but we want to confirm our results with a candy thermometer.



Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 10, 2018, at 12:58 PM, squid101 <squid101 at fastmail.us> wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> All of the info sites I've read say organically three choices.  
> Neem and garlic oil.  Deterrent rather than killer so limited effectiveness.
> Beneficials: ladybugs and some others (download list from tamu site)
> Plant earlier if possible .
> 
> Perhaps a combo will at least reduce the pressure?
> 
> Lot of info here, including an invite to send specific questions to one of their researchers.  Maybe you could drop him a note?
> 
> https://agrilifeextension.tamu.edu/solutions/sugarcane-aphid/ 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
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From paullefebvre at hotmail.com  Mon Oct 15 17:48:05 2018
From: paullefebvre at hotmail.com (Paul Lefebvre)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 22:48:05 +0000
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
In-Reply-To: <f1deddc175a89bafd9bb35c0bd0dd1dc.squirrel@roland.ckt.net>
References: <CAJRr7p3z9+=qSVL75t5kQw6sQnnk=FXv0P6_hRLsvqre4o++LA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1539448096.216117731@webmail2.fidnet.com>,
	<CAJRr7p21nxjk9g+MF7Jd-55m9G=0p8c0_16uvkSdsA1n2bZePQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<MWHPR22MB0926D5E2EF6C886730F58AB9CEE30@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>,
	<4ca85d10919db051ca6e547017ab49dc.squirrel@roland.ckt.net>
	<MWHPR22MB09268C38AEF98F5C0C09FB68CEFC0@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>,
	<f1deddc175a89bafd9bb35c0bd0dd1dc.squirrel@roland.ckt.net>
Message-ID: <MWHPR22MB0926EF6547E9FD4892E8E9FACEFD0@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>

Thank you all for the suggestions ? I?ve harvested 1/5 of my limited supply this year and plan, as per your suggestions, to let the stalks ?age? for 5 days, before running though the mill.  I?ll let the juice settle for a day and then siphon it off before boiling doing.



I?ll then compare the final product with a batch that doesn?t get the ?ageing? treatment and see how they stack up.



Thanks again to all who replied; as a beginner, I really appreciate your helpful feedback!



Cheers,



Paul

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10



________________________________
From: Syrupmakers <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net> on behalf of ieck at ckt.net <ieck at ckt.net>
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2018 4:49:20 PM
To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?

Paul,
 In  regard to production loss from bacteria, there are a number of
factors which need to be considered. Does the cane already have red rot
problems? Does the cane have multiple cracks or is freeze damage present?
 Just remember that anytime a stalk?s rind is breached, that is an entry
point for bacteria.  Bacteria loves carbohydrates.
 It was our experience, back in the 70s, that healthy cane could be stored
7 to 10 days with little problems.  I would not recommend storing in to
tight a stack or in a high moisture environment.

 A moderate amount of bacteria actually lowers the pH which normally
results in a lighter syrup.

 We used a rising film evaporator. This was basically a vertical shell and
tube heat exchanger with steam around the outside of the tubes. The juice
was pumped at a specific rate up through the tubes.  This, coupled with
our vacuum cooker, greatly reduced the amount of time the syrup resided
at temperatures above 160?.

 There were also times we would use a centrifuge, toward the end of the
cooking process, to clarify the syrup.

 We had a lot of fun. There are times that I almost wish we were back
make?n sorghum again.

Ivan




 Hi Ivan,
>
>
>
>   Thank you very much for such a detailed and well written reply regarding
> the DE, and suggesting vacuum evaporation.  I haven?t heard of thin film
> evaporation, so I have some reading to do now!  Sounds like you had
> quite a sophisticated operation.
>
>
>
> As far as letting the cut stalks ?rest? before pressing ? how common is
> this practice?  I?ve heard of people doing it before, but am sure I?ve
> read papers in the past that found this practice reduced sugar levels due
> to bacteria, which lead me to believe it wasn?t the best practice.
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
> 10
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Syrupmakers <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net> on behalf of
> ieck at ckt.net <ieck at ckt.net>
> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 9:15:03 PM
> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>
>
> Hello Paul,
>  I have not read how others have responded to your question so if I am
> repeating please forgive.
>  We have used literally tons of diatomaceous earth and it should be viewed
> as simply a filtering aid. In short, we would  preheat and pre-skim 1200
> gallons of juice.  Just after this skimming process was done, we would
> thoroughly mix 50 pounds of diatomite and keep it suspended in the juice
> while we were pumping it through a pressure leaf filter.  This filtering
> process left very little skimming to do on our evaporator pans.
>  Toward the end of our sorghum making career, we were using a thin film
> evaporation process coupled with finishing the product under 21 inches of
> vacuum.
>  You will find that the better you clean your juice and the faster you can
> get it to 80 brix and then cooled to  160? or less, the lighter your
> sorghum will be.  The longer your syrup stays at a temperature over 160?
> the more it will caramelize. This caramelization will add color and
> stronger flavors. This is why we used ?thin film? and vacuum in our
> process.
>   I would caution against the use of any base or acid additives.  If your
> green juice becomes acidic it will produce a lighter syrup but not
> always a desirable flavor. If you add some form of alkaline, you will
> find that it will actually produce a darker syrup.
>
> Pleasant regards,
> Ivan
>
>  Very interesting Gail!  I did a quick search, but couldn???t find any
>> reference to using baking soda to help separation.  That doesn???t mean
>> that your wrong though....anyone else have info on baking soda?
>>
>> Keith: I???m not quite sure what you mean by the rising of the juice.
>> Could you expand?  If the addition of lime makes a thicker foam, which
>> helps the separation process, then I would imagine that the baking soda
>> addition might work in the same way, since baking soda does cause the
>> boiling juice to foam.  How do you neutralize the alkalinity of the
>> lime?
>>
>> Does anyone else have any other secrets/techniques to help in
>> separation?
>>
>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows
>> 10
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Syrupmakers <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net> on behalf of
>> Keith
>> Evans <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>
>> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 9:50:15 AM
>> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>
>> I too have heard of the use of baking soda and water added to the juice
>> to
>> make it rise in the kettle, if it falls. By "it" , I mean the juice when
>> it rises. Haven't heard of baking soda being used for separation. I'm in
>> South East Alabama.
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 11:44 AM
>> tenacity at fidnet.com<mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com>
>> <tenacity at fidnet.com<mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com>> wrote:
>>
>>  Here in the midwest I have heard of using baking soda to bring the
>> "debris" to the top quickly. I have not tried this myself. but
>> understand
>> it is used by some Amish regularly. Anyone tried using it? And in what
>> quantity for what size pan? We have both a 100 gallon and a 30 gallon
>> batch pan. Would love to hear any experiences.
>>
>>
>>
>> Gail in Missouri
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "Paul Lefebvre"
>> <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>>
>> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 10:20am
>> To: "A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers"
>> <syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>>
>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>
>> Thanks for the reply Keith,
>>
>>     Here in Canada, pickling lime is banned as a food additive, so
>> it???s
>> nearly impossible to get.  ???
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows
>> 10
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Syrupmakers
>> <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>>
>> on behalf of Keith Evans
>> <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com<mailto:dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>>
>> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 8:04:11 AM
>> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>
>> I've never used DE , but I use a pickeling lime at around 160?? to help
>> with separation. It causes a bigger foam (crust) for particles to get
>> trapped in, therefore being able to remove those fine particles easier.
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 12:57 PM Paul Lefebvre
>> <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>>    I was wondering if anyone on this list uses Diatomaceous Earth in
>> their
>> production of syrup.  Maasdam Sorghum Mill briefly mentions the
>> addition of Diatomaceous Earth in
>> this<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV6ztHccDy0> video at around 6:00
>> to help remove particles, but doesn???t go into the exact specifics for
>> using it, and was hoping I could get some feedback from anyone out
>> there who knows more.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows
>> 10
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>> _______________________________________________
>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>> _______________________________________________
>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>



_______________________________________________
Syrupmakers mailing list
Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
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From scott at eldercomputersolutions.com  Mon Oct 15 19:48:24 2018
From: scott at eldercomputersolutions.com (Scott)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 00:48:24 +0000
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
In-Reply-To: <MWHPR22MB0926EF6547E9FD4892E8E9FACEFD0@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
References: <CAJRr7p3z9+=qSVL75t5kQw6sQnnk=FXv0P6_hRLsvqre4o++LA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1539448096.216117731@webmail2.fidnet.com>,
	<CAJRr7p21nxjk9g+MF7Jd-55m9G=0p8c0_16uvkSdsA1n2bZePQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<MWHPR22MB0926D5E2EF6C886730F58AB9CEE30@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>,
	<4ca85d10919db051ca6e547017ab49dc.squirrel@roland.ckt.net>
	<MWHPR22MB09268C38AEF98F5C0C09FB68CEFC0@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>,
	<f1deddc175a89bafd9bb35c0bd0dd1dc.squirrel@roland.ckt.net>,
	<MWHPR22MB0926EF6547E9FD4892E8E9FACEFD0@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
Message-ID: <ABC714E4-D942-4F80-B593-FE69DDB422BB@eldercomputersolutions.com>

Paul

Where are located that you survived the sugar cane aphid?  Or did you spray?  I lost all my sorghum to aphid and wind.

Thanks
Scott

Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 15, 2018, at 6:50 PM, Paul Lefebvre <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>> wrote:


Thank you all for the suggestions ? I?ve harvested 1/5 of my limited supply this year and plan, as per your suggestions, to let the stalks ?age? for 5 days, before running though the mill.  I?ll let the juice settle for a day and then siphon it off before boiling doing.



I?ll then compare the final product with a batch that doesn?t get the ?ageing? treatment and see how they stack up.



Thanks again to all who replied; as a beginner, I really appreciate your helpful feedback!



Cheers,



Paul

Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10



________________________________
From: Syrupmakers <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>> on behalf of ieck at ckt.net<mailto:ieck at ckt.net> <ieck at ckt.net<mailto:ieck at ckt.net>>
Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2018 4:49:20 PM
To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?

Paul,
 In  regard to production loss from bacteria, there are a number of
factors which need to be considered. Does the cane already have red rot
problems? Does the cane have multiple cracks or is freeze damage present?
 Just remember that anytime a stalk?s rind is breached, that is an entry
point for bacteria.  Bacteria loves carbohydrates.
 It was our experience, back in the 70s, that healthy cane could be stored
7 to 10 days with little problems.  I would not recommend storing in to
tight a stack or in a high moisture environment.

 A moderate amount of bacteria actually lowers the pH which normally
results in a lighter syrup.

 We used a rising film evaporator. This was basically a vertical shell and
tube heat exchanger with steam around the outside of the tubes. The juice
was pumped at a specific rate up through the tubes.  This, coupled with
our vacuum cooker, greatly reduced the amount of time the syrup resided
at temperatures above 160?.

 There were also times we would use a centrifuge, toward the end of the
cooking process, to clarify the syrup.

 We had a lot of fun. There are times that I almost wish we were back
make?n sorghum again.

Ivan




 Hi Ivan,
>
>
>
>   Thank you very much for such a detailed and well written reply regarding
> the DE, and suggesting vacuum evaporation.  I haven?t heard of thin film
> evaporation, so I have some reading to do now!  Sounds like you had
> quite a sophisticated operation.
>
>
>
> As far as letting the cut stalks ?rest? before pressing ? how common is
> this practice?  I?ve heard of people doing it before, but am sure I?ve
> read papers in the past that found this practice reduced sugar levels due
> to bacteria, which lead me to believe it wasn?t the best practice.
>
>
>
> Paul
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
> 10
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Syrupmakers <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>> on behalf of
> ieck at ckt.net<mailto:ieck at ckt.net> <ieck at ckt.net<mailto:ieck at ckt.net>>
> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 9:15:03 PM
> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>
>
> Hello Paul,
>  I have not read how others have responded to your question so if I am
> repeating please forgive.
>  We have used literally tons of diatomaceous earth and it should be viewed
> as simply a filtering aid. In short, we would  preheat and pre-skim 1200
> gallons of juice.  Just after this skimming process was done, we would
> thoroughly mix 50 pounds of diatomite and keep it suspended in the juice
> while we were pumping it through a pressure leaf filter.  This filtering
> process left very little skimming to do on our evaporator pans.
>  Toward the end of our sorghum making career, we were using a thin film
> evaporation process coupled with finishing the product under 21 inches of
> vacuum.
>  You will find that the better you clean your juice and the faster you can
> get it to 80 brix and then cooled to  160? or less, the lighter your
> sorghum will be.  The longer your syrup stays at a temperature over 160?
> the more it will caramelize. This caramelization will add color and
> stronger flavors. This is why we used ?thin film? and vacuum in our
> process.
>   I would caution against the use of any base or acid additives.  If your
> green juice becomes acidic it will produce a lighter syrup but not
> always a desirable flavor. If you add some form of alkaline, you will
> find that it will actually produce a darker syrup.
>
> Pleasant regards,
> Ivan
>
>  Very interesting Gail!  I did a quick search, but couldn???t find any
>> reference to using baking soda to help separation.  That doesn???t mean
>> that your wrong though....anyone else have info on baking soda?
>>
>> Keith: I???m not quite sure what you mean by the rising of the juice.
>> Could you expand?  If the addition of lime makes a thicker foam, which
>> helps the separation process, then I would imagine that the baking soda
>> addition might work in the same way, since baking soda does cause the
>> boiling juice to foam.  How do you neutralize the alkalinity of the
>> lime?
>>
>> Does anyone else have any other secrets/techniques to help in
>> separation?
>>
>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows
>> 10
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Syrupmakers <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>> on behalf of
>> Keith
>> Evans <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com<mailto:dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>>
>> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 9:50:15 AM
>> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>
>> I too have heard of the use of baking soda and water added to the juice
>> to
>> make it rise in the kettle, if it falls. By "it" , I mean the juice when
>> it rises. Haven't heard of baking soda being used for separation. I'm in
>> South East Alabama.
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 11:44 AM
>> tenacity at fidnet.com<mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com><mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com>
>> <tenacity at fidnet.com<mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com><mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com>> wrote:
>>
>>  Here in the midwest I have heard of using baking soda to bring the
>> "debris" to the top quickly. I have not tried this myself. but
>> understand
>> it is used by some Amish regularly. Anyone tried using it? And in what
>> quantity for what size pan? We have both a 100 gallon and a 30 gallon
>> batch pan. Would love to hear any experiences.
>>
>>
>>
>> Gail in Missouri
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: "Paul Lefebvre"
>> <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com><mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>>
>> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 10:20am
>> To: "A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers"
>> <syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net><mailto:syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>>
>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>
>> Thanks for the reply Keith,
>>
>>     Here in Canada, pickling lime is banned as a food additive, so
>> it???s
>> nearly impossible to get.  ???
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows
>> 10
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Syrupmakers
>> <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net><mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>>
>> on behalf of Keith Evans
>> <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com<mailto:dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com><mailto:dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>>
>> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 8:04:11 AM
>> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>
>> I've never used DE , but I use a pickeling lime at around 160?? to help
>> with separation. It causes a bigger foam (crust) for particles to get
>> trapped in, therefore being able to remove those fine particles easier.
>>
>> On Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 12:57 PM Paul Lefebvre
>> <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com><mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>> Hi All,
>>
>>    I was wondering if anyone on this list uses Diatomaceous Earth in
>> their
>> production of syrup.  Maasdam Sorghum Mill briefly mentions the
>> addition of Diatomaceous Earth in
>> this<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV6ztHccDy0> video at around 6:00
>> to help remove particles, but doesn???t go into the exact specifics for
>> using it, and was hoping I could get some feedback from anyone out
>> there who knows more.
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows
>> 10
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net><mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>> _______________________________________________
>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net><mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>> _______________________________________________
>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>



_______________________________________________
Syrupmakers mailing list
Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
_______________________________________________
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From ieck at ckt.net  Mon Oct 15 22:07:45 2018
From: ieck at ckt.net (ieck at ckt.net)
Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2018 22:07:45 -0500
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
In-Reply-To: <ABC714E4-D942-4F80-B593-FE69DDB422BB@eldercomputersolutions.com>
References: <CAJRr7p3z9+=qSVL75t5kQw6sQnnk=FXv0P6_hRLsvqre4o++LA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1539448096.216117731@webmail2.fidnet.com>,
	<CAJRr7p21nxjk9g+MF7Jd-55m9G=0p8c0_16uvkSdsA1n2bZePQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<MWHPR22MB0926D5E2EF6C886730F58AB9CEE30@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>,
	<4ca85d10919db051ca6e547017ab49dc.squirrel@roland.ckt.net>
	<MWHPR22MB09268C38AEF98F5C0C09FB68CEFC0@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>,
	<f1deddc175a89bafd9bb35c0bd0dd1dc.squirrel@roland.ckt.net>,
	<MWHPR22MB0926EF6547E9FD4892E8E9FACEFD0@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
	<ABC714E4-D942-4F80-B593-FE69DDB422BB@eldercomputersolutions.com>
Message-ID: <7209285eca67e311ef2f4cfc9da7da59.squirrel@roland.ckt.net>

Scott, Paul or anyone else who my be interested, we have a mill we would
be willing to sell. It has not been used since ?97 but has been under roof
for all these years. The mill is more than a hobby mill and would be more
suited for production.

 If anyone is interested, just reply and I will provide more information.

Thanks, Ivan




 Paul
>
> Where are located that you survived the sugar cane aphid?  Or did you
> spray?  I lost all my sorghum to aphid and wind.
>
> Thanks
> Scott
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 15, 2018, at 6:50 PM, Paul Lefebvre
> <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> Thank you all for the suggestions ? I?ve harvested 1/5 of my limited
> supply this year and plan, as per your suggestions, to let the stalks
> ?age? for 5 days, before running though the mill.  I?ll let the juice
> settle for a day and then siphon it off before boiling doing.
>
>
>
> I?ll then compare the final product with a batch that doesn?t get the
> ?ageing? treatment and see how they stack up.
>
>
>
> Thanks again to all who replied; as a beginner, I really appreciate your
> helpful feedback!
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Paul
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
> 10
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Syrupmakers
> <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>>
> on behalf of ieck at ckt.net<mailto:ieck at ckt.net>
> <ieck at ckt.net<mailto:ieck at ckt.net>>
> Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2018 4:49:20 PM
> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>
> Paul,
>  In  regard to production loss from bacteria, there are a number of
> factors which need to be considered. Does the cane already have red rot
> problems? Does the cane have multiple cracks or is freeze damage present?
>  Just remember that anytime a stalk?s rind is breached, that is an entry
> point for bacteria.  Bacteria loves carbohydrates.
>  It was our experience, back in the 70s, that healthy cane could be stored
> 7 to 10 days with little problems.  I would not recommend storing in to
> tight a stack or in a high moisture environment.
>
>  A moderate amount of bacteria actually lowers the pH which normally
> results in a lighter syrup.
>
>  We used a rising film evaporator. This was basically a vertical shell and
> tube heat exchanger with steam around the outside of the tubes. The juice
> was pumped at a specific rate up through the tubes.  This, coupled with
> our vacuum cooker, greatly reduced the amount of time the syrup resided
> at temperatures above 160?.
>
>  There were also times we would use a centrifuge, toward the end of the
> cooking process, to clarify the syrup.
>
>  We had a lot of fun. There are times that I almost wish we were back
> make?n sorghum again.
>
> Ivan
>
>
>
>
>  Hi Ivan,
>>
>>
>>
>>   Thank you very much for such a detailed and well written reply
>> regarding
>> the DE, and suggesting vacuum evaporation.  I haven?t heard of thin film
>> evaporation, so I have some reading to do now!  Sounds like you had
>> quite a sophisticated operation.
>>
>>
>>
>> As far as letting the cut stalks ?rest? before pressing ? how common is
>> this practice?  I?ve heard of people doing it before, but am sure I?ve
>> read papers in the past that found this practice reduced sugar levels
>> due
>> to bacteria, which lead me to believe it wasn?t the best practice.
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows
>> 10
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Syrupmakers
>> <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>>
>> on behalf of
>> ieck at ckt.net<mailto:ieck at ckt.net> <ieck at ckt.net<mailto:ieck at ckt.net>>
>> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 9:15:03 PM
>> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>
>>
>> Hello Paul,
>>  I have not read how others have responded to your question so if I am
>> repeating please forgive.
>>  We have used literally tons of diatomaceous earth and it should be
>> viewed
>> as simply a filtering aid. In short, we would  preheat and pre-skim 1200
>> gallons of juice.  Just after this skimming process was done, we would
>> thoroughly mix 50 pounds of diatomite and keep it suspended in the juice
>> while we were pumping it through a pressure leaf filter.  This filtering
>> process left very little skimming to do on our evaporator pans.
>>  Toward the end of our sorghum making career, we were using a thin film
>> evaporation process coupled with finishing the product under 21 inches
>> of
>> vacuum.
>>  You will find that the better you clean your juice and the faster you
>> can
>> get it to 80 brix and then cooled to  160? or less, the lighter your
>> sorghum will be.  The longer your syrup stays at a temperature over 160?
>> the more it will caramelize. This caramelization will add color and
>> stronger flavors. This is why we used ?thin film? and vacuum in our
>> process.
>>   I would caution against the use of any base or acid additives.  If
>> your
>> green juice becomes acidic it will produce a lighter syrup but not
>> always a desirable flavor. If you add some form of alkaline, you will
>> find that it will actually produce a darker syrup.
>>
>> Pleasant regards,
>> Ivan
>>
>>  Very interesting Gail!  I did a quick search, but couldn???t find any
>>> reference to using baking soda to help separation.  That doesn???t mean
>>> that your wrong though....anyone else have info on baking soda?
>>>
>>> Keith: I???m not quite sure what you mean by the rising of the juice.
>>> Could you expand?  If the addition of lime makes a thicker foam, which
>>> helps the separation process, then I would imagine that the baking soda
>>> addition might work in the same way, since baking soda does cause the
>>> boiling juice to foam.  How do you neutralize the alkalinity of the
>>> lime?
>>>
>>> Does anyone else have any other secrets/techniques to help in
>>> separation?
>>>
>>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>> Windows
>>> 10
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Syrupmakers
>>> <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>>
>>> on behalf of
>>> Keith
>>> Evans <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com<mailto:dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>>
>>> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 9:50:15 AM
>>> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
>>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>>
>>> I too have heard of the use of baking soda and water added to the juice
>>> to
>>> make it rise in the kettle, if it falls. By "it" , I mean the juice
>>> when
>>> it rises. Haven't heard of baking soda being used for separation. I'm
>>> in
>>> South East Alabama.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 11:44 AM
>>> tenacity at fidnet.com<mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com><mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com>
>>> <tenacity at fidnet.com<mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com><mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Here in the midwest I have heard of using baking soda to bring the
>>> "debris" to the top quickly. I have not tried this myself. but
>>> understand
>>> it is used by some Amish regularly. Anyone tried using it? And in what
>>> quantity for what size pan? We have both a 100 gallon and a 30 gallon
>>> batch pan. Would love to hear any experiences.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gail in Missouri
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: "Paul Lefebvre"
>>> <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com><mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>>
>>> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 10:20am
>>> To: "A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers"
>>> <syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net><mailto:syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>>
>>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>>
>>> Thanks for the reply Keith,
>>>
>>>     Here in Canada, pickling lime is banned as a food additive, so
>>> it???s
>>> nearly impossible to get.  ???
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>> Windows
>>> 10
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Syrupmakers
>>> <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net><mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>>
>>> on behalf of Keith Evans
>>> <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com<mailto:dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com><mailto:dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>>
>>> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 8:04:11 AM
>>> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
>>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>>
>>> I've never used DE , but I use a pickeling lime at around 160?? to help
>>> with separation. It causes a bigger foam (crust) for particles to get
>>> trapped in, therefore being able to remove those fine particles easier.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 12:57 PM Paul Lefebvre
>>> <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com><mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>>
>>> wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>>    I was wondering if anyone on this list uses Diatomaceous Earth in
>>> their
>>> production of syrup.  Maasdam Sorghum Mill briefly mentions the
>>> addition of Diatomaceous Earth in
>>> this<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV6ztHccDy0> video at around 6:00
>>> to help remove particles, but doesn???t go into the exact specifics for
>>> using it, and was hoping I could get some feedback from anyone out
>>> there who knows more.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>> Windows
>>> 10
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net><mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
>>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net><mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
>>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
>>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>> _______________________________________________
>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>




From Thomas.Talty at Mercy.Net  Tue Oct 16 11:22:05 2018
From: Thomas.Talty at Mercy.Net (Talty, Thomas N)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 16:22:05 +0000
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
In-Reply-To: <7209285eca67e311ef2f4cfc9da7da59.squirrel@roland.ckt.net>
References: <CAJRr7p3z9+=qSVL75t5kQw6sQnnk=FXv0P6_hRLsvqre4o++LA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1539448096.216117731@webmail2.fidnet.com>,
	<CAJRr7p21nxjk9g+MF7Jd-55m9G=0p8c0_16uvkSdsA1n2bZePQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<MWHPR22MB0926D5E2EF6C886730F58AB9CEE30@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>,
	<4ca85d10919db051ca6e547017ab49dc.squirrel@roland.ckt.net>
	<MWHPR22MB09268C38AEF98F5C0C09FB68CEFC0@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>,
	<f1deddc175a89bafd9bb35c0bd0dd1dc.squirrel@roland.ckt.net>,
	<MWHPR22MB0926EF6547E9FD4892E8E9FACEFD0@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
	<ABC714E4-D942-4F80-B593-FE69DDB422BB@eldercomputersolutions.com>
	<7209285eca67e311ef2f4cfc9da7da59.squirrel@roland.ckt.net>
Message-ID: <AB9B2C51C1AE324E99473888AED999EA721CF3F3@STL-VMAILBOXP07.smrcy.com>

Is this a vertical or horizontal mill?

-----Original Message-----
From: Syrupmakers [mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net] On Behalf Of ieck at ckt.net
Sent: Monday, October 15, 2018 10:08 PM
To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?

Scott, Paul or anyone else who my be interested, we have a mill we would
be willing to sell. It has not been used since ?97 but has been under roof
for all these years. The mill is more than a hobby mill and would be more
suited for production.

 If anyone is interested, just reply and I will provide more information.

Thanks, Ivan




 Paul
>
> Where are located that you survived the sugar cane aphid?  Or did you
> spray?  I lost all my sorghum to aphid and wind.
>
> Thanks
> Scott
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 15, 2018, at 6:50 PM, Paul Lefebvre
> <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>
>
> Thank you all for the suggestions ? I?ve harvested 1/5 of my limited
> supply this year and plan, as per your suggestions, to let the stalks
> ?age? for 5 days, before running though the mill.  I?ll let the juice
> settle for a day and then siphon it off before boiling doing.
>
>
>
> I?ll then compare the final product with a batch that doesn?t get the
> ?ageing? treatment and see how they stack up.
>
>
>
> Thanks again to all who replied; as a beginner, I really appreciate your
> helpful feedback!
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Paul
>
> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows
> 10
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Syrupmakers
> <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>>
> on behalf of ieck at ckt.net<mailto:ieck at ckt.net>
> <ieck at ckt.net<mailto:ieck at ckt.net>>
> Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2018 4:49:20 PM
> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>
> Paul,
>  In  regard to production loss from bacteria, there are a number of
> factors which need to be considered. Does the cane already have red rot
> problems? Does the cane have multiple cracks or is freeze damage present?
>  Just remember that anytime a stalk?s rind is breached, that is an entry
> point for bacteria.  Bacteria loves carbohydrates.
>  It was our experience, back in the 70s, that healthy cane could be stored
> 7 to 10 days with little problems.  I would not recommend storing in to
> tight a stack or in a high moisture environment.
>
>  A moderate amount of bacteria actually lowers the pH which normally
> results in a lighter syrup.
>
>  We used a rising film evaporator. This was basically a vertical shell and
> tube heat exchanger with steam around the outside of the tubes. The juice
> was pumped at a specific rate up through the tubes.  This, coupled with
> our vacuum cooker, greatly reduced the amount of time the syrup resided
> at temperatures above 160?.
>
>  There were also times we would use a centrifuge, toward the end of the
> cooking process, to clarify the syrup.
>
>  We had a lot of fun. There are times that I almost wish we were back
> make?n sorghum again.
>
> Ivan
>
>
>
>
>  Hi Ivan,
>>
>>
>>
>>   Thank you very much for such a detailed and well written reply
>> regarding
>> the DE, and suggesting vacuum evaporation.  I haven?t heard of thin film
>> evaporation, so I have some reading to do now!  Sounds like you had
>> quite a sophisticated operation.
>>
>>
>>
>> As far as letting the cut stalks ?rest? before pressing ? how common is
>> this practice?  I?ve heard of people doing it before, but am sure I?ve
>> read papers in the past that found this practice reduced sugar levels
>> due
>> to bacteria, which lead me to believe it wasn?t the best practice.
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows
>> 10
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Syrupmakers
>> <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>>
>> on behalf of
>> ieck at ckt.net<mailto:ieck at ckt.net> <ieck at ckt.net<mailto:ieck at ckt.net>>
>> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 9:15:03 PM
>> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>
>>
>> Hello Paul,
>>  I have not read how others have responded to your question so if I am
>> repeating please forgive.
>>  We have used literally tons of diatomaceous earth and it should be
>> viewed
>> as simply a filtering aid. In short, we would  preheat and pre-skim 1200
>> gallons of juice.  Just after this skimming process was done, we would
>> thoroughly mix 50 pounds of diatomite and keep it suspended in the juice
>> while we were pumping it through a pressure leaf filter.  This filtering
>> process left very little skimming to do on our evaporator pans.
>>  Toward the end of our sorghum making career, we were using a thin film
>> evaporation process coupled with finishing the product under 21 inches
>> of
>> vacuum.
>>  You will find that the better you clean your juice and the faster you
>> can
>> get it to 80 brix and then cooled to  160? or less, the lighter your
>> sorghum will be.  The longer your syrup stays at a temperature over 160?
>> the more it will caramelize. This caramelization will add color and
>> stronger flavors. This is why we used ?thin film? and vacuum in our
>> process.
>>   I would caution against the use of any base or acid additives.  If
>> your
>> green juice becomes acidic it will produce a lighter syrup but not
>> always a desirable flavor. If you add some form of alkaline, you will
>> find that it will actually produce a darker syrup.
>>
>> Pleasant regards,
>> Ivan
>>
>>  Very interesting Gail!  I did a quick search, but couldn???t find any
>>> reference to using baking soda to help separation.  That doesn???t mean
>>> that your wrong though....anyone else have info on baking soda?
>>>
>>> Keith: I???m not quite sure what you mean by the rising of the juice.
>>> Could you expand?  If the addition of lime makes a thicker foam, which
>>> helps the separation process, then I would imagine that the baking soda
>>> addition might work in the same way, since baking soda does cause the
>>> boiling juice to foam.  How do you neutralize the alkalinity of the
>>> lime?
>>>
>>> Does anyone else have any other secrets/techniques to help in
>>> separation?
>>>
>>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>> Windows
>>> 10
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Syrupmakers
>>> <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>>
>>> on behalf of
>>> Keith
>>> Evans <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com<mailto:dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>>
>>> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 9:50:15 AM
>>> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
>>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>>
>>> I too have heard of the use of baking soda and water added to the juice
>>> to
>>> make it rise in the kettle, if it falls. By "it" , I mean the juice
>>> when
>>> it rises. Haven't heard of baking soda being used for separation. I'm
>>> in
>>> South East Alabama.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 11:44 AM
>>> tenacity at fidnet.com<mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com><mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com>
>>> <tenacity at fidnet.com<mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com><mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com>>
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>  Here in the midwest I have heard of using baking soda to bring the
>>> "debris" to the top quickly. I have not tried this myself. but
>>> understand
>>> it is used by some Amish regularly. Anyone tried using it? And in what
>>> quantity for what size pan? We have both a 100 gallon and a 30 gallon
>>> batch pan. Would love to hear any experiences.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Gail in Missouri
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: "Paul Lefebvre"
>>> <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com><mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>>
>>> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 10:20am
>>> To: "A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers"
>>> <syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net><mailto:syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>>
>>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>>
>>> Thanks for the reply Keith,
>>>
>>>     Here in Canada, pickling lime is banned as a food additive, so
>>> it???s
>>> nearly impossible to get.  ???
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>> Windows
>>> 10
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Syrupmakers
>>> <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net><mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>>
>>> on behalf of Keith Evans
>>> <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com<mailto:dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com><mailto:dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>>
>>> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 8:04:11 AM
>>> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
>>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>>
>>> I've never used DE , but I use a pickeling lime at around 160?? to help
>>> with separation. It causes a bigger foam (crust) for particles to get
>>> trapped in, therefore being able to remove those fine particles easier.
>>>
>>> On Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 12:57 PM Paul Lefebvre
>>> <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com><mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>>
>>> wrote:
>>> Hi All,
>>>
>>>    I was wondering if anyone on this list uses Diatomaceous Earth in
>>> their
>>> production of syrup.  Maasdam Sorghum Mill briefly mentions the
>>> addition of Diatomaceous Earth in
>>> this<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV6ztHccDy0> video at around 6:00
>>> to help remove particles, but doesn???t go into the exact specifics for
>>> using it, and was hoping I could get some feedback from anyone out
>>> there who knows more.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>> Windows
>>> 10
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net><mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
>>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net><mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
>>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
>>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>> _______________________________________________
>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>



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From reit8472 at sw.rr.com  Tue Oct 16 12:39:38 2018
From: reit8472 at sw.rr.com (Sw.rr.com)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 12:39:38 -0500
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Cane strippers
Message-ID: <D893C5CE-D72E-46EF-97FA-320E7E0E1522@sw.rr.com>

I have three sets of can stripping blades with instructions to fabricate a handle. They where purchased from William Adams in 2008. Email me if interested. All my family had passed that did cane so no longer needed. 
Thank you, Ken

Sent from my iPhone


From davidduvic at me.com  Tue Oct 16 12:44:19 2018
From: davidduvic at me.com (David Duvic)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 12:44:19 -0500
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Cane strippers
In-Reply-To: <D893C5CE-D72E-46EF-97FA-320E7E0E1522@sw.rr.com>
References: <D893C5CE-D72E-46EF-97FA-320E7E0E1522@sw.rr.com>
Message-ID: <03C138ED-F8DD-4C7D-86A6-A850B6989F6B@me.com>

I would love to have them. How much are the strippers and would you be able to ship them to me in Louisiana.  David Duvic 225-571-0899

Sent from my iPad

> On Oct 16, 2018, at 12:39 PM, Sw.rr.com <reit8472 at sw.rr.com> wrote:
> 
> I have three sets of can stripping blades with instructions to fabricate a handle. They where purchased from William Adams in 2008. Email me if interested. All my family had passed that did cane so no longer needed. 
> Thank you, Ken
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net


From mbsrbf at gmail.com  Tue Oct 16 12:44:28 2018
From: mbsrbf at gmail.com (Milton Boyette)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 13:44:28 -0400
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Cane strippers
In-Reply-To: <D893C5CE-D72E-46EF-97FA-320E7E0E1522@sw.rr.com>
References: <D893C5CE-D72E-46EF-97FA-320E7E0E1522@sw.rr.com>
Message-ID: <CAMM5xfei-sQjJ7m7MReqUGaYEyC3FqYRM5TJuUQgBG4ZX92CQg@mail.gmail.com>

Could you post some pictures?
Thanks, Milton-Sugarcane

On Tue, Oct 16, 2018 at 1:41 PM Sw.rr.com <reit8472 at sw.rr.com> wrote:

> I have three sets of can stripping blades with instructions to fabricate a
> handle. They where purchased from William Adams in 2008. Email me if
> interested. All my family had passed that did cane so no longer needed.
> Thank you, Ken
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> _______________________________________________
> Syrupmakers mailing list
> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>
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From ieck at ckt.net  Tue Oct 16 13:50:33 2018
From: ieck at ckt.net (ieck at ckt.net)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 13:50:33 -0500
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
In-Reply-To: <AB9B2C51C1AE324E99473888AED999EA721CF3F3@STL-VMAILBOXP07.smrcy.com>
References: <CAJRr7p3z9+=qSVL75t5kQw6sQnnk=FXv0P6_hRLsvqre4o++LA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1539448096.216117731@webmail2.fidnet.com>,
	<CAJRr7p21nxjk9g+MF7Jd-55m9G=0p8c0_16uvkSdsA1n2bZePQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<MWHPR22MB0926D5E2EF6C886730F58AB9CEE30@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>,
	<4ca85d10919db051ca6e547017ab49dc.squirrel@roland.ckt.net>
	<MWHPR22MB09268C38AEF98F5C0C09FB68CEFC0@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>,
	<f1deddc175a89bafd9bb35c0bd0dd1dc.squirrel@roland.ckt.net>,
	<MWHPR22MB0926EF6547E9FD4892E8E9FACEFD0@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
	<ABC714E4-D942-4F80-B593-FE69DDB422BB@eldercomputersolutions.com>
	<7209285eca67e311ef2f4cfc9da7da59.squirrel@roland.ckt.net>
	<AB9B2C51C1AE324E99473888AED999EA721CF3F3@STL-VMAILBOXP07.smrcy.com>
Message-ID: <bfbceb572f31fabc7ee04dd8dddaa2e1.squirrel@roland.ckt.net>



 This is a vertical mill with hydraulic cylinders mounted above the top
roller.  I don?t remember the diameter of the rollers but I will try to
get that info if you?re interested in knowing.

> Is this a vertical or horizontal mill?
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Syrupmakers [mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net] On Behalf
> Of ieck at ckt.net
> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2018 10:08 PM
> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>
> Scott, Paul or anyone else who my be interested, we have a mill we would
> be willing to sell. It has not been used since ???97 but has been under
> roof
> for all these years. The mill is more than a hobby mill and would be more
> suited for production.
>
>  If anyone is interested, just reply and I will provide more information.
>
> Thanks, Ivan
>
>
>
>
>  Paul
>>
>> Where are located that you survived the sugar cane aphid?  Or did you
>> spray?  I lost all my sorghum to aphid and wind.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Scott
>>
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Oct 15, 2018, at 6:50 PM, Paul Lefebvre
>> <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Thank you all for the suggestions ??? I???ve harvested 1/5 of my
>> limited
>> supply this year and plan, as per your suggestions, to let the stalks
>> ???age??? for 5 days, before running though the mill.  I???ll let the
>> juice
>> settle for a day and then siphon it off before boiling doing.
>>
>>
>>
>> I???ll then compare the final product with a batch that doesn???t get
>> the
>> ???ageing??? treatment and see how they stack up.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks again to all who replied; as a beginner, I really appreciate
>> your
>> helpful feedback!
>>
>>
>>
>> Cheers,
>>
>>
>>
>> Paul
>>
>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>> Windows
>> 10
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Syrupmakers
>> <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>>
>> on behalf of ieck at ckt.net<mailto:ieck at ckt.net>
>> <ieck at ckt.net<mailto:ieck at ckt.net>>
>> Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2018 4:49:20 PM
>> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>
>> Paul,
>>  In  regard to production loss from bacteria, there are a number of
>> factors which need to be considered. Does the cane already have red rot
>> problems? Does the cane have multiple cracks or is freeze damage
>> present?
>>  Just remember that anytime a stalk???s rind is breached, that is an
>> entry
>> point for bacteria.  Bacteria loves carbohydrates.
>>  It was our experience, back in the 70s, that healthy cane could be
>> stored
>> 7 to 10 days with little problems.  I would not recommend storing in to
>> tight a stack or in a high moisture environment.
>>
>>  A moderate amount of bacteria actually lowers the pH which normally
>> results in a lighter syrup.
>>
>>  We used a rising film evaporator. This was basically a vertical shell
>> and
>> tube heat exchanger with steam around the outside of the tubes. The
>> juice
>> was pumped at a specific rate up through the tubes.  This, coupled with
>> our vacuum cooker, greatly reduced the amount of time the syrup resided
>> at temperatures above 160??.
>>
>>  There were also times we would use a centrifuge, toward the end of the
>> cooking process, to clarify the syrup.
>>
>>  We had a lot of fun. There are times that I almost wish we were back
>> make???n sorghum again.
>>
>> Ivan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>  Hi Ivan,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>   Thank you very much for such a detailed and well written reply
>>> regarding
>>> the DE, and suggesting vacuum evaporation.  I haven???t heard of thin
>>> film
>>> evaporation, so I have some reading to do now!  Sounds like you had
>>> quite a sophisticated operation.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> As far as letting the cut stalks ???rest??? before pressing ??? how
>>> common is
>>> this practice?  I???ve heard of people doing it before, but am sure
>>> I???ve
>>> read papers in the past that found this practice reduced sugar levels
>>> due
>>> to bacteria, which lead me to believe it wasn???t the best practice.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Paul
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>> Windows
>>> 10
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Syrupmakers
>>> <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>>
>>> on behalf of
>>> ieck at ckt.net<mailto:ieck at ckt.net> <ieck at ckt.net<mailto:ieck at ckt.net>>
>>> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 9:15:03 PM
>>> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
>>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>>
>>>
>>> Hello Paul,
>>>  I have not read how others have responded to your question so if I am
>>> repeating please forgive.
>>>  We have used literally tons of diatomaceous earth and it should be
>>> viewed
>>> as simply a filtering aid. In short, we would  preheat and pre-skim
>>> 1200
>>> gallons of juice.  Just after this skimming process was done, we would
>>> thoroughly mix 50 pounds of diatomite and keep it suspended in the
>>> juice
>>> while we were pumping it through a pressure leaf filter.  This
>>> filtering
>>> process left very little skimming to do on our evaporator pans.
>>>  Toward the end of our sorghum making career, we were using a thin
>>> film
>>> evaporation process coupled with finishing the product under 21 inches
>>> of
>>> vacuum.
>>>  You will find that the better you clean your juice and the faster you
>>> can
>>> get it to 80 brix and then cooled to  160?? or less, the lighter your
>>> sorghum will be.  The longer your syrup stays at a temperature over
>>> 160??
>>> the more it will caramelize. This caramelization will add color and
>>> stronger flavors. This is why we used ???thin film??? and vacuum in
>>> our
>>> process.
>>>   I would caution against the use of any base or acid additives.  If
>>> your
>>> green juice becomes acidic it will produce a lighter syrup but not
>>> always a desirable flavor. If you add some form of alkaline, you will
>>> find that it will actually produce a darker syrup.
>>>
>>> Pleasant regards,
>>> Ivan
>>>
>>>  Very interesting Gail!  I did a quick search, but couldn????????t find
>>> any
>>>> reference to using baking soda to help separation.  That
>>>> doesn????????t mean
>>>> that your wrong though....anyone else have info on baking soda?
>>>>
>>>> Keith: I????????m not quite sure what you mean by the rising of the
>>>> juice.
>>>> Could you expand?  If the addition of lime makes a thicker foam,
>>>> which
>>>> helps the separation process, then I would imagine that the baking
>>>> soda
>>>> addition might work in the same way, since baking soda does cause the
>>>> boiling juice to foam.  How do you neutralize the alkalinity of the
>>>> lime?
>>>>
>>>> Does anyone else have any other secrets/techniques to help in
>>>> separation?
>>>>
>>>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>>> Windows
>>>> 10
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Syrupmakers
>>>> <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>>
>>>> on behalf of
>>>> Keith
>>>> Evans <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com<mailto:dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 9:50:15 AM
>>>> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
>>>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>>>
>>>> I too have heard of the use of baking soda and water added to the
>>>> juice
>>>> to
>>>> make it rise in the kettle, if it falls. By "it" , I mean the juice
>>>> when
>>>> it rises. Haven't heard of baking soda being used for separation. I'm
>>>> in
>>>> South East Alabama.
>>>>
>>>> On Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 11:44 AM
>>>> tenacity at fidnet.com<mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com><mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com>
>>>> <tenacity at fidnet.com<mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com><mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>  Here in the midwest I have heard of using baking soda to bring the
>>>> "debris" to the top quickly. I have not tried this myself. but
>>>> understand
>>>> it is used by some Amish regularly. Anyone tried using it? And in
>>>> what
>>>> quantity for what size pan? We have both a 100 gallon and a 30 gallon
>>>> batch pan. Would love to hear any experiences.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Gail in Missouri
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>> From: "Paul Lefebvre"
>>>> <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com><mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 10:20am
>>>> To: "A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers"
>>>> <syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net><mailto:syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>>>
>>>> Thanks for the reply Keith,
>>>>
>>>>     Here in Canada, pickling lime is banned as a food additive, so
>>>> it????????s
>>>> nearly impossible to get.  ??????
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>>> Windows
>>>> 10
>>>>
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Syrupmakers
>>>> <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net><mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>>
>>>> on behalf of Keith Evans
>>>> <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com<mailto:dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com><mailto:dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 8:04:11 AM
>>>> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
>>>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>>>
>>>> I've never used DE , but I use a pickeling lime at around 160???? to
>>>> help
>>>> with separation. It causes a bigger foam (crust) for particles to get
>>>> trapped in, therefore being able to remove those fine particles
>>>> easier.
>>>>
>>>> On Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 12:57 PM Paul Lefebvre
>>>> <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com><mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>>
>>>> wrote:
>>>> Hi All,
>>>>
>>>>    I was wondering if anyone on this list uses Diatomaceous Earth in
>>>> their
>>>> production of syrup.  Maasdam Sorghum Mill briefly mentions the
>>>> addition of Diatomaceous Earth in
>>>> this<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV6ztHccDy0> video at around
>>>> 6:00
>>>> to help remove particles, but doesn????????t go into the exact
>>>> specifics for
>>>> using it, and was hoping I could get some feedback from anyone out
>>>> there who knows more.
>>>>
>>>> Cheers,
>>>>
>>>> Paul
>>>>
>>>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>>> Windows
>>>> 10
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>>>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net><mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
>>>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>>>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net><mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
>>>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>>>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
>>>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
>>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
>>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>> _______________________________________________
>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>> _______________________________________________
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>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>>
>
>
>
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From cattleman1920 at aol.com  Tue Oct 16 14:56:25 2018
From: cattleman1920 at aol.com (George Martin)
Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2018 15:56:25 -0400
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
In-Reply-To: <bfbceb572f31fabc7ee04dd8dddaa2e1.squirrel@roland.ckt.net>
References: <CAJRr7p3z9+=qSVL75t5kQw6sQnnk=FXv0P6_hRLsvqre4o++LA@mail.gmail.com>
	<1539448096.216117731@webmail2.fidnet.com>
	<CAJRr7p21nxjk9g+MF7Jd-55m9G=0p8c0_16uvkSdsA1n2bZePQ@mail.gmail.com>
	<MWHPR22MB0926D5E2EF6C886730F58AB9CEE30@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
	<4ca85d10919db051ca6e547017ab49dc.squirrel@roland.ckt.net>
	<MWHPR22MB09268C38AEF98F5C0C09FB68CEFC0@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
	<f1deddc175a89bafd9bb35c0bd0dd1dc.squirrel@roland.ckt.net>
	<MWHPR22MB0926EF6547E9FD4892E8E9FACEFD0@MWHPR22MB0926.namprd22.prod.outlook.com>
	<ABC714E4-D942-4F80-B593-FE69DDB422BB@eldercomputersolutions.com>
	<7209285eca67e311ef2f4cfc9da7da59.squirrel@roland.ckt.net>
	<AB9B2C51C1AE324E99473888AED999EA721CF3F3@STL-VMAILBOXP07.smrcy.com>
	<bfbceb572f31fabc7ee04dd8dddaa2e1.squirrel@roland.ckt.net>
Message-ID: <2A2B0FAB-B8D4-47D8-8AF6-FADCC5344CF3@aol.com>

Ivan,
I grow 5 acres of sorghum yearly in Virginia. I have almost worn out my Chattanooga horizontal mill and need to replace it. Would you please send me the manufacturer, model, how it is driven/powered, a photo, location and the price.
Many thanks,
George M

Sent from my iPhone

> On Oct 16, 2018, at 2:50 PM, ieck at ckt.net wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> This is a vertical mill with hydraulic cylinders mounted above the top
> roller.  I don?t remember the diameter of the rollers but I will try to
> get that info if you?re interested in knowing.
> 
>> Is this a vertical or horizontal mill?
>> 
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: Syrupmakers [mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net] On Behalf
>> Of ieck at ckt.net
>> Sent: Monday, October 15, 2018 10:08 PM
>> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>> 
>> Scott, Paul or anyone else who my be interested, we have a mill we would
>> be willing to sell. It has not been used since ???97 but has been under
>> roof
>> for all these years. The mill is more than a hobby mill and would be more
>> suited for production.
>> 
>> If anyone is interested, just reply and I will provide more information.
>> 
>> Thanks, Ivan
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Paul
>>> 
>>> Where are located that you survived the sugar cane aphid?  Or did you
>>> spray?  I lost all my sorghum to aphid and wind.
>>> 
>>> Thanks
>>> Scott
>>> 
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>> 
>>> On Oct 15, 2018, at 6:50 PM, Paul Lefebvre
>>> <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thank you all for the suggestions ??? I???ve harvested 1/5 of my
>>> limited
>>> supply this year and plan, as per your suggestions, to let the stalks
>>> ???age??? for 5 days, before running though the mill.  I???ll let the
>>> juice
>>> settle for a day and then siphon it off before boiling doing.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> I???ll then compare the final product with a batch that doesn???t get
>>> the
>>> ???ageing??? treatment and see how they stack up.
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Thanks again to all who replied; as a beginner, I really appreciate
>>> your
>>> helpful feedback!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Cheers,
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Paul
>>> 
>>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>> Windows
>>> 10
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ________________________________
>>> From: Syrupmakers
>>> <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>>
>>> on behalf of ieck at ckt.net<mailto:ieck at ckt.net>
>>> <ieck at ckt.net<mailto:ieck at ckt.net>>
>>> Sent: Sunday, October 14, 2018 4:49:20 PM
>>> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
>>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>> 
>>> Paul,
>>> In  regard to production loss from bacteria, there are a number of
>>> factors which need to be considered. Does the cane already have red rot
>>> problems? Does the cane have multiple cracks or is freeze damage
>>> present?
>>> Just remember that anytime a stalk???s rind is breached, that is an
>>> entry
>>> point for bacteria.  Bacteria loves carbohydrates.
>>> It was our experience, back in the 70s, that healthy cane could be
>>> stored
>>> 7 to 10 days with little problems.  I would not recommend storing in to
>>> tight a stack or in a high moisture environment.
>>> 
>>> A moderate amount of bacteria actually lowers the pH which normally
>>> results in a lighter syrup.
>>> 
>>> We used a rising film evaporator. This was basically a vertical shell
>>> and
>>> tube heat exchanger with steam around the outside of the tubes. The
>>> juice
>>> was pumped at a specific rate up through the tubes.  This, coupled with
>>> our vacuum cooker, greatly reduced the amount of time the syrup resided
>>> at temperatures above 160??.
>>> 
>>> There were also times we would use a centrifuge, toward the end of the
>>> cooking process, to clarify the syrup.
>>> 
>>> We had a lot of fun. There are times that I almost wish we were back
>>> make???n sorghum again.
>>> 
>>> Ivan
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi Ivan,
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>  Thank you very much for such a detailed and well written reply
>>>> regarding
>>>> the DE, and suggesting vacuum evaporation.  I haven???t heard of thin
>>>> film
>>>> evaporation, so I have some reading to do now!  Sounds like you had
>>>> quite a sophisticated operation.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> As far as letting the cut stalks ???rest??? before pressing ??? how
>>>> common is
>>>> this practice?  I???ve heard of people doing it before, but am sure
>>>> I???ve
>>>> read papers in the past that found this practice reduced sugar levels
>>>> due
>>>> to bacteria, which lead me to believe it wasn???t the best practice.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Paul
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>>> Windows
>>>> 10
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Syrupmakers
>>>> <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>>
>>>> on behalf of
>>>> ieck at ckt.net<mailto:ieck at ckt.net> <ieck at ckt.net<mailto:ieck at ckt.net>>
>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 9:15:03 PM
>>>> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
>>>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> Hello Paul,
>>>> I have not read how others have responded to your question so if I am
>>>> repeating please forgive.
>>>> We have used literally tons of diatomaceous earth and it should be
>>>> viewed
>>>> as simply a filtering aid. In short, we would  preheat and pre-skim
>>>> 1200
>>>> gallons of juice.  Just after this skimming process was done, we would
>>>> thoroughly mix 50 pounds of diatomite and keep it suspended in the
>>>> juice
>>>> while we were pumping it through a pressure leaf filter.  This
>>>> filtering
>>>> process left very little skimming to do on our evaporator pans.
>>>> Toward the end of our sorghum making career, we were using a thin
>>>> film
>>>> evaporation process coupled with finishing the product under 21 inches
>>>> of
>>>> vacuum.
>>>> You will find that the better you clean your juice and the faster you
>>>> can
>>>> get it to 80 brix and then cooled to  160?? or less, the lighter your
>>>> sorghum will be.  The longer your syrup stays at a temperature over
>>>> 160??
>>>> the more it will caramelize. This caramelization will add color and
>>>> stronger flavors. This is why we used ???thin film??? and vacuum in
>>>> our
>>>> process.
>>>>  I would caution against the use of any base or acid additives.  If
>>>> your
>>>> green juice becomes acidic it will produce a lighter syrup but not
>>>> always a desirable flavor. If you add some form of alkaline, you will
>>>> find that it will actually produce a darker syrup.
>>>> 
>>>> Pleasant regards,
>>>> Ivan
>>>> 
>>>> Very interesting Gail!  I did a quick search, but couldn????????t find
>>>> any
>>>>> reference to using baking soda to help separation.  That
>>>>> doesn????????t mean
>>>>> that your wrong though....anyone else have info on baking soda?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Keith: I????????m not quite sure what you mean by the rising of the
>>>>> juice.
>>>>> Could you expand?  If the addition of lime makes a thicker foam,
>>>>> which
>>>>> helps the separation process, then I would imagine that the baking
>>>>> soda
>>>>> addition might work in the same way, since baking soda does cause the
>>>>> boiling juice to foam.  How do you neutralize the alkalinity of the
>>>>> lime?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Does anyone else have any other secrets/techniques to help in
>>>>> separation?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>>>> Windows
>>>>> 10
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Syrupmakers
>>>>> <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>>
>>>>> on behalf of
>>>>> Keith
>>>>> Evans <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com<mailto:dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 9:50:15 AM
>>>>> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I too have heard of the use of baking soda and water added to the
>>>>> juice
>>>>> to
>>>>> make it rise in the kettle, if it falls. By "it" , I mean the juice
>>>>> when
>>>>> it rises. Haven't heard of baking soda being used for separation. I'm
>>>>> in
>>>>> South East Alabama.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Sat, Oct 13, 2018, 11:44 AM
>>>>> tenacity at fidnet.com<mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com><mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com>
>>>>> <tenacity at fidnet.com<mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com><mailto:tenacity at fidnet.com>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> 
>>>>> Here in the midwest I have heard of using baking soda to bring the
>>>>> "debris" to the top quickly. I have not tried this myself. but
>>>>> understand
>>>>> it is used by some Amish regularly. Anyone tried using it? And in
>>>>> what
>>>>> quantity for what size pan? We have both a 100 gallon and a 30 gallon
>>>>> batch pan. Would love to hear any experiences.
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> Gail in Missouri
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> 
>>>>> -----Original Message-----
>>>>> From: "Paul Lefebvre"
>>>>> <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com><mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 10:20am
>>>>> To: "A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers"
>>>>> <syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net><mailto:syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>>
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>>>> 
>>>>> Thanks for the reply Keith,
>>>>> 
>>>>>    Here in Canada, pickling lime is banned as a food additive, so
>>>>> it????????s
>>>>> nearly impossible to get.  ??????
>>>>> 
>>>>> Paul
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>>>> Windows
>>>>> 10
>>>>> 
>>>>> ________________________________
>>>>> From: Syrupmakers
>>>>> <syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net<mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net><mailto:syrupmakers-bounces at syrupmakers.net>>
>>>>> on behalf of Keith Evans
>>>>> <dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com<mailto:dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com><mailto:dr.ofsheetrock at gmail.com>>
>>>>> Sent: Saturday, October 13, 2018 8:04:11 AM
>>>>> To: A list for sorghum and cane syrupmakers
>>>>> Subject: Re: [Syrupmakers] Diatomaceous Earth?
>>>>> 
>>>>> I've never used DE , but I use a pickeling lime at around 160???? to
>>>>> help
>>>>> with separation. It causes a bigger foam (crust) for particles to get
>>>>> trapped in, therefore being able to remove those fine particles
>>>>> easier.
>>>>> 
>>>>> On Thu, Oct 11, 2018, 12:57 PM Paul Lefebvre
>>>>> <paullefebvre at hotmail.com<mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com><mailto:paullefebvre at hotmail.com>>
>>>>> wrote:
>>>>> Hi All,
>>>>> 
>>>>>   I was wondering if anyone on this list uses Diatomaceous Earth in
>>>>> their
>>>>> production of syrup.  Maasdam Sorghum Mill briefly mentions the
>>>>> addition of Diatomaceous Earth in
>>>>> this<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hV6ztHccDy0> video at around
>>>>> 6:00
>>>>> to help remove particles, but doesn????????t go into the exact
>>>>> specifics for
>>>>> using it, and was hoping I could get some feedback from anyone out
>>>>> there who knows more.
>>>>> 
>>>>> Cheers,
>>>>> 
>>>>> Paul
>>>>> 
>>>>> Sent from Mail<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for
>>>>> Windows
>>>>> 10
>>>>> 
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>>>>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net><mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
>>>>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>>>>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net><mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
>>>>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>>>>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
>>>>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>>>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
>>>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>>>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
>>>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net<mailto:Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net>
>>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> _______________________________________________
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>>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Syrupmakers mailing list
>> Syrupmakers at syrupmakers.net
>> http://syrupmakers.net/mailman/listinfo/syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net
>> 
>> This electronic mail and any attached documents are intended solely for
>> the named addressee(s) and contain confidential information. If you are
>> not an addressee, or responsible for delivering this email to an
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> 
> 
> 
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From patrickterryfarm at yahoo.com  Sat Oct 20 03:55:06 2018
From: patrickterryfarm at yahoo.com (Patrick Terry)
Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2018 02:55:06 -0600
Subject: [Syrupmakers] (no subject)
Message-ID: <201810200855.w9K8t6r4025791@nomad.enterprise.com>

http://letter.gurusaysrelax.com


Patrick Terry

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From anthonycranford at ymail.com  Tue Oct 30 09:30:39 2018
From: anthonycranford at ymail.com (Anthony Cranford)
Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2018 09:30:39 -0500
Subject: [Syrupmakers] Cane mill for sale
Message-ID: <mailman.0.1540909853.127618.syrupmakers_syrupmakers.net@syrupmakers.net>


For sale a southern plow model No. 18 three roller horizontal power mill. This mill is ready to operate. Located in south west Alabama. Contact Jessie at 251-242-5709 
Sent from Mail for Windows 10

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